What was it like watching God change your father's life?

My dad speaking in church after he was diagnosed with cancer.

In the Christian community in my small home town of Scottsbluff, Nebraska, my dad (Dan Hovseth) was well known. He was the type of guy who was either loved or hated. He never backed down from a lively debate and since the time he accepted Jesus as his Savior when I was five years old, he was a fierce defender of the faith, studying every apologetics book available and passing them out like candy to anyone he could force them on. Kids I went to school with often assumed he was a pastor and would be shocked when I’d explain to them that he actually drove coal trains, he just really loved Jesus and spreading the Gospel.

Me, sleeping in my father’s arms.

But, my dad was far from perfect and he would be the first to admit that. He was simply a human saved by grace. His humanity plus his eccentric/slightly bi-polar qualities, made my childhood rocky. It was a series of high mountain tops and deep valleys. As I grew older, and my dad grew closer and closer to God, the valleys became less frequent and less deep. I got to witness God transform my dad’s life in ways everyone had believed were impossible.

My dad, me, and my siblings on a family walk (mom took the pic on a flip phone).

He passed away August 22nd, 2015 when I was 26 years old from non-smokers lung cancer. It took me quite awhile to process the grief from his death—I’m sure I’m still processing some of it. But, about a month after his funeral, when I was back at college across the state, I sat down in a fancy pretzel restaurant and silently cried in public as I hand-wrote the first draft of this non-fiction story (I just couldn’t wait until I got home to get these words out). It was the best way I knew how to sort out the various waves of emotion and memories which had been fighting to break loose. It represents the state of my mind during the first few minutes of my life after I found out he had passed away. Time seemed to slow down during those minutes as my mind jumped me from flashback to flashback of my life with my dad.

Be forewarned, this isn’t a pretty story. The language isn’t always clean. But, it is real. It is human. And, it shows the grace of God in real, human lives.

My mom and dad (Dan and Lori Hovseth)

(Before you get concerned, don’t worry, my mother has read and approved of me sharing this story, and my father would have too—anything to show the truth of Christ’s sacrifice and God’s salvation and grace in our lives.)

This is also the flagship story of my brother, Giles Hovseth, and mine short story compilation book which we dedicated to our father and titled, “Our Dad is Dead: and Other Fun Things to Talk About”.

Well, with all that said, here it is: a glimpse into my grief stricken memories.


My Dad is Dead

by Amanda Hovseth

“Amanda…” my brother’s voice breaks, like he’s choking on something. “Amanda, wake up.”

“What? Yah, Giles what…” I’m answering before my eyes open, my mind determined to respond before my body is willing.

“Dad’s dead.”

“Wow, really?”  Wow? Did I really say wow? How did Giles get in here anyway? The door is open…I left the door open. When I went to bed a couple of hours ago I felt like I needed to. Twenty-six years old and still superstitious, ridiculous. Good. It would have hurt him to have come downstairs to a locked door.

“Yah.” He coughs. “It just happened…just now.”

“Okay, I’m coming.” I reach for my glasses. Have to get upstairs. Can’t wait for contacts, in a hurry…a hurry, why? Time is already up. Dead. Gone. Permanent. I put on my glasses. My brother has left, he’s waking up our other brother, right outside my room. My baby brother, the youngest, my babiest. Dad’s dead.  My room is dark but light shines through the opened doorway, I hurry towards it.

I am twenty-five years old, back in college, and looking forward to a road trip home with my dad for Thanksgiving Break. When he says he is proud of me now, it feels real because I am finally proud of myself. I had never really believed him before because a silent voice inside had always read the undertones in his words as disappointment. But, now my first book is published, and the majority of reviews are positive, his review is positive. He stops at every bookstore, school, and church on his road trips to tell them about my book. His ceaseless peddling of my work has shown me he believes I have something worth saying.

He’s temporarily stationed in Arkansas for the railroad and is going to drive out of his way to pick me up. We will have seven hours alone together and I am excited to talk to him about my new life, my new future.

My phone rings, he tells me he is running late. He took a nap after work and ended up sleeping much longer than anticipated. I say it’s okay because I’ll just nap while I wait for him.

Five minutes later he calls again. He sounds tired and he stumbles over his words. His boss says he has to work later that day. I might as well drive myself and we will meet back home. He is very sorry. We hang up and I stare at the phone. It’s okay, I will still get to see him at home. But a realization penetrates my hopes, he has never missed family time for work before. He has always talked his way out of or into anything he wants. He is a real life con-artist. It doesn’t compute. I shake my head and smile. He’s an easily distracted guy, I’m sure it’s nothing.

I use the bathroom and then grab my bag to leave. My phone rings. It’s my mom, probably to check on our travel status. I answer. There’s two seconds of silence…“Mom?” She sobs. I put my bags down, “What’s wrong?”

“Have you left yet?”

“No, just about to.”

“Good, you might need to go to Arkansas. Your father had a stroke, he’s in the hospital. He says he’s fine, but I know he’s not. I’m sorry, you’re the closest… he needs someone there.”

“Okay…” I check google maps. “I can be there in eight hours.” She thanks me. “I’ll head out now.” We hang up. 

My phone rings. “Mandy?” My dad’s voice is soft and wavers as if he is half asleep.

My dad at the hospital in Arkansas with friends he had already made (and talked to about Jesus) during the short time he was stationed there for work.

“I know, Dad, Mom just called me. I’m on my way to your hospital.” I prepare for an argument. For him to say he’s fine and my mom shouldn’t have imposed…

“Are you sure?”

“Yes, I want to come.”

“I’ll text you my room number when they tell me.”

“Love you, Dad, see you soon.”

“Love you too.”

I’m eighteen years old, my dad’s calling me a stupid b**** and shoving me backwards. I fall onto the couch. My mother screams. “DON’T YOU EVER! Don’t you ever talk to my daughter like that!” She runs at him and is pounding his chest and arms with her fists. He tries to block her blows while moving her away. She stops, exhausted and drops down next to me, pulling me into her arms. My dad is pressing his palms to his forehead. He throws a chair across the room. Then grabs car keys and heads out the front door. My mom is telling me not to listen to him. I barely hear her. I’ve never been called a b**** before, probably never will be again…at least not by someone who knows me.

I’m twenty-three years old, in a hotel in San Antonio. It’s just me and my dad, he’s been temporarily stationed here by the railroad, “borrowed out” they call it. He didn’t want to go alone, so I decided to go with at the last minute. We’ve been here a month and a half now. He walks into the hotel room. I sit up in bed.

My dad

“Dad? Your back already? How’d you get back?” Normally I have to pick him up from the depot when his trains come in.

He’s ruffling his hair; his eyes look hollow. He sits down to undo his work boots, but I can tell his skin is crawling. I wait, he’ll talk, it’s usually hard to stop him from talking.

“I hit a guy with my train. A boy. A man. He was in his twenties.” He glances at me every once in a while as he talks, but never makes eye contact. “He just stepped out in front of the train. I think he had headphones on. They phoned his parents…came to the tracks…apparently his brain wasn’t right…he was…autistic or something.”

“What? Why was he walking alone if he was that autistic?”

“I know, right!” My dad is looking in the freezer, probably for ice cream. He pulls it out and puts it back, his skin is pale. “Some people just don’t…they just don’t think…I’ve hit cows before. Those trains, they really leave nothing. Just pulp, barely tell it’s human. He wasn’t even close to the size of a cow.” He’s opening a bag of beef jerky.

“You know it’s not your fault, right? You can’t stop those trains on time. If you could have, you would have.”

“Of course it’s not my fault!” He paces back and forth across the length of the room. “No, I’m okay. I could see him there from a ways away. He was just walking, and I thought he would stop. I honked the horn just in case. He just kept walking. I thought for sure he would stop, why wouldn’t he stop? Everyone stops. Then he didn’t…he just didn’t…stepped right out in front. Train didn’t even bump. We pulled the breaks, I thought maybe he’d made it across, where I couldn’t see. Trains take a long time to stop though.”

“Are you fired?”

“I thought for sure I would be, but no. They want me to see a therapist and I have three days off of work. I told them I don’t need a therapist, it wasn’t my fault, I had no hand in it. His parents didn’t even think so. Said he was living on his own for a year now, his roommate didn’t know he was autistic.” He takes a bite of his jerky. “Did you have plans for today?”

I do, I planned on meeting up with another railroader’s wife and daughter and going to see the Madame Tussauds Wax Museum and Ripley’s Believe It or Not. I ask if he wants to join.

He wrinkles his nose. “No, call me when you’re done though.”

“I can stay if you want.”

“No, no Mandy, really I’m fine. It wasn’t my fault.” He’s pacing again.

“Of course it wasn’t but we can go another day, when you’re at work.”

“Really,” He raises his voice and waves me off. “I’m fine. Call me after.”

Me and my dad

I leave the room and go to the museums. My phone is turned off inside because it’s proper etiquette but when I make it to the gift shop and turn it on to call my father I realize I have six missed calls from him. My stomach flips and I call him back.

“Hello?” He answers and the phone crackles from the wind blowing past. “Mandy? Where’ve you been?”

“In the museums I just got done and called you.”

“It took that long?”

“Yah, I guess.”

“Well I’m out front.”

I turn to my friends and tell them where I’m going. As I walk to the front of the museum I spot him on a bench. He smiles and waves, but his eyes still look hollow. My heart aches. Poor guy, I should have never left him alone.

I’m nine years old and I’ve had a sleepless night. My parents are up, yelling at each other. I am lying in bed, pretending to be asleep and wondering if my sister in the bunk below me is actually asleep or if she is crying silently as well. I think that perhaps I should climb into bed with her and comfort her, but I don’t know how. And if she is asleep then I’d only wake her up. So, we lie alone.

My family: (back to front, left to right) Dan, Lori, Gavin, Kara, Giles, me

It’s the next morning, I slip into the bathroom to use the toilet. My mom is in the shower but there is only one bathroom so we often double up.

She steps out as I’m brushing my teeth and I notice a long dark bruise on her right thigh. I ask if she’s okay. She insists she is, she doesn’t even know how she got that bruise.

My dad is nowhere to be seen. Someone has obviously tidied up the living room. Part of me is worried my dad won’t come back. The other part knows that when I return from school there will be a new vase of flowers in the window and my parents will be waiting to hear how my day went. Like every time before.

I’m twenty-six years old, I came home for the summer because my dad has been diagnosed with cancer. Turns out he never had a stroke, only seizures brought on by brain tumors. My parents found me a job in road construction. I work anywhere from eight to fifteen hours a day. I’m walking up the stairs at five a.m. to get ready for work. My dad is awake in the living room. He always wakes up to send my brother and me off to work. He is looking at his phone. The low morning light allows the glow from his phone to accentuate his bone structure; sharp edges which used to be concealed in muscle. I wonder at how quickly his athletic physique has abandoned him.  

“Mandy! Good morning! Have you seen these pictures of Giles and Jamus?”

My dad with my cousin Jamus (after my dad was diagnosed with cancer)

Jamus is one of my cousins, he’s four years old and can’t digest any food at all, so he lives solely on a powdery nutrient substance. Quite frankly if people didn’t know he was sick, they wouldn’t guess it. He has curly red hair and chubby cheeks that even cherubs would envy. He enjoys labeling days as “Hug Day” and then distributing hugs throughout the house. When he has an allergic episode he dresses up as Iron Man and faces the situation head on. He is just absolutely adorable and ceaselessly cheerful. He also loves my father, calls him his best friend.

“Yah.” I chuckle. “Jamus is super cute.”

“I know!” My dad lets out what is best described as a girlish squeal. “I just keep thinking, he couldn’t be any cuter, and then I flip to the next picture and…he is still even cuter!”

I laugh as I scoot my mom’s cat out of the way and head out the front door.

His voice trails after, “I love you Mandy, and I’m proud of you.”

He has said that every morning this summer.


I don’t know who made it to the stairs first, me or my brothers. It doesn’t matter, we have all climbed them and are now walking through the kitchen. My mom is already on the phone, it reminds me I’m late to the show. Time is slipping through my fingers at a speed I have never before encountered.

My family around 2003

I’m twelve years old. My dad is standing by the stove with a big butcher knife in his hand. Neighborhood kids are watching and gasping as he continuously flips the knife into the air and catches it while making various faces of fear and shock.  Tootsie Roll, our little Yorkshire Terrier, is hanging out by his feet. I call her over and pick her up. My dad glances my way and I frown at him. He knows this type of thing worries me. He calls out. “What, Mandy? You don’t trust me?” Then he throws the knife even higher. I roll my eyes and leave the room. He can insist on dropping a knife on his foot, but he can’t make me watch.

I am nineteen years old and I don’t know how many days I have been lying in bed. I share a house with two friends.  My dad hadn’t wanted me to move out. He had yelled and yelled, calling me a fool for wasting the money. Then he had scoured my new apartment from top to bottom, looking for ways to make it safer. I don’t know what I am doing with my life. College is boring, and the end seems so far away. I haven’t picked a career and have no idea how to go about doing so. And I just keep gaining weight no matter how much I work out. A month ago some doctor gave me antidepressants and I don’t know if I’ve left my bed since. I’ve missed every single college class, and I’ll tell you what, I couldn’t care less. I couldn’t care if the world caught fire and burned up right in front of me. I couldn’t care if a masked man entered my room and skinned a box of puppies. I couldn’t care if Orlando Bloom asked me to dinner.

Me, my dad, and my sister (Kara)

My phone rings. I answer. It’s my father. I can barely hear him. I’m not sure if he’s on speakerphone or if I’m still half asleep. While he talks I stare at the wall which I painted pink five months ago. The call is short. He tells me he loves me no matter what. He knows I’m going through some stuff and I might be worried he’d be disappointed. But he’s not, it doesn’t matter, he loves me anyway.  The phone is beeping now. He must have hung up. I pull it away from my ear and notice the time. It’s time to take my antidepressant. I pick up the box and roll onto my back. I hold the little white pods in front of my face and stare at them. The sun sets outside my window, slowly obscuring my view. I blink, throw the pods at the trash can, and stand up. It’s time to take a shower.

I’m two years old, it’s the middle of the night and my mom is pulling me out of bed and bundling me into the car. I ask her where we are going.

“To pick up your father.”

My parents (Lori and Dan)-apparently I took this picture of them as a toddler

It feels like we have driven forever. I am lying with my head resting by her pregnant belly when we pull up in front of a bar. I know it’s a bar because of the neon lights. All bars have lights like that. She tells me to wait in the car and grabs a bat from the back seat. I wonder if my dad needs it to loan to a friend. Then she pauses and puts the bat back down.

Minutes later she is stomping out of the bar with my dad stumbling behind her, a bright red imprint of a palm on his cheek. They both get into the car without saying a word. I climb onto my dad’s lap and I sleep the rest of the way home.

I turn the corner from the kitchen into the hallway. I know he will be there, at the end and to the right. I know he will. But he won’t. I don’t want to go. I have to go.

I’m twenty-four years old and at a Friday night Bible study with my father. People are asking him about his testimony. I smile because I know my dad doesn’t like giving his testimony. He says that everyone thinks their life story is worth telling and most people are wrong. They insist. So, he gives them a piece of information which I always expected but never confirmed until then.

My parents (Dan and Lori) cutting the cake on their wedding day.

“When my lady told me she was pregnant with Mandy I panicked. I knew I should marry her and take care of the kid, but how was I supposed to do that? I was just a kid…I gambled a lot then, had gotten in too deep with the mafia. I started watching Oprah at my mom’s house, thought it might help, it didn’t much. My brother…the one, he’s in Omaha now but was in Alliance, Denny, his wife got me an interview with Union Pacific Railroad. So, I drove through the night, from Chicago to Western Nebraska, took the test, and they gave me the job. I figured the mafia goons wouldn’t drive to Nebraska lookin’ for me, cuz really, you can’t squeeze a dry sponge anyway. It worked, I paid them off later.…But, if it wasn’t for Lori’s pregnancy I would have never looked to leave. If I had never moved to Nebraska I would have never met Pastor Rich. And if I had never met Rich, I…who knows for sure, but I think I would not have ever been convinced of my need for a Savior. I thought I was good enough to make God happy. I suppose everyone thinks that. Ironic isn’t it, wanting to earn love and failing; when all along I could’ve gotten it for free?”

I’m twenty-three years old. I just graduated from Bible College. My dad has called a family meeting. He wants to study the book of Proverbs. It’s a good idea in theory, but family meetings never end well. This time it’s my fault.

I’m mad. My stomach is clenching and my jaw is tightening. He’s picked a study guide which is full of big words and nonsense phrases and ideas. I try to explain, “Proverbs is simple. This book is ridiculous. Man’s way of overcomplicating God’s Word to make ourselves seem more sophisticated.” Normally my dad would understand this. I know for a fact he would agree with that general statement. But this isn’t normally, this is a family meeting, and something goes wrong.

My family, taking awkward family Christmas photos

I’m grabbing my backpack, mentally calculating what is inside…my wallet, laptop, flash drive (with all my stories on it), phone…while I’m yelling at my dad and telling him I’d be better off alone. He yells back, something like, “Go ahead then!” I slam the door and stomp two miles to the library.

It’s been five hours in the library. I have friends I can call, plenty of friends who would let me move in as long as I need. Even a couple of guys I know who would welcome the chance to get closer to me, guys my dad wouldn’t approve of. But if I called them, if I called any of them, then the world would know. The world would hear of times he yelled, the time he broke our kitchen table, and they would see nothing else. They wouldn’t actually see him and how much he truly has changed throughout the years. Everything he has worked for, everything I have worked for, would be ruined.

I’m walking through my parents’ front door. The rest of my family is in the living room, quietly reading various books and watching TV. They look up when I come in, nod, and keep reading. My dad isn’t there. I wonder if I can sneak into my room and pretend like nothing happened. Our cat, Shale, is walking by. He pauses in front of me. Shale was a rescue, so he’s always hiding, never making a peep. Normally he runs when the front door is opened, instead he looks at me and walks down the hallway. I follow him. He leads me into my parents’ room. My dad is on the bed with his back towards me and a phone in his hand. Shale jumps up onto the bed and meows. My dad turns around.

Instantly I start crying. And I say, “I came back. I don’t want to break up our family over a dumb argument.”

My dad is on his feet and hugging me. “I’m glad you came home. I didn’t know where to look.”

I’m twenty years old and I work as a secretary at Regional West Medical Center. My main job is organizing patients’ charts and putting doctors’ orders into the computer. It’s been a hard twelve-hour shift and I’m exhausted when I walk through my parents’ front door. A couple of my friends are over, so I try to put on a smile. My dad isn’t fooled and instantly notices my sour mood. He insists on knowing what has upset me. I keep it simple because I want to move on, telling him the job is hard because I seldom get bathroom breaks and the doctors are pretty rude. He’s furious. He calls my friend Andy over, grabs a phonebook and the car keys, and asks me what the doctors’ names are.

I ask, "Why do you need their names?"

Me and my dad

He says, “No one gets to be rude to my daughter, no matter who they are!”

Despite his rage, I smile. He and Andy plan on teaching the doctors “a lesson”. I know what type of lessons my dad teaches people and I know our town needs its doctors, no matter how rude they are. So, I convince him the doctors weren’t rude to me specifically. They are just rude in general. I really am okay. At this point, I’m beaming because of how protective my father and friends are, so he believes me and is content.

Instead of teaching lessons, he and Andy make homemade Chicago-style pizza.

I’m five years old. We are driving across the country, back home from my grandmother’s funeral. It’s nighttime. My parents laid down the seats in the back of our red minivan so that my siblings and I have a huge bed. I stare at the stars through the window and listen to the consistent calm of the wind blowing past.

My grandmother is dead. I cried when they told me, even though I barely knew her. I knew the concept of a grandmother, and mine was dead. Then I saw her body. It was white and cold, painted and posed. It was not her. They placed her body there, but she was not in it. I crawl to the front of the van and sit, leaning forward between my parents’ seats. I want to know where grandma is.

They tell me something my mother has known since she was young, but my father had only learned recently. Grandma could be in Heaven if she had trusted God to get her there. They just don’t know if she did.

I feel chills. How does someone trust God to get them to Heaven?

Me, my dad, and my sister (Kara) painting a porch (the van I accepted Jesus in is in the background).

They tell me that every time we do the opposite of what God wants us to do, we have to be punished for it. If we decide to try to handle the punishment ourselves, then God can’t let us go to Heaven, because not going to Heaven is the punishment. But even when God is angry, He loves us and wants us to go to Heaven. So, He decided to take the punishment, Himself. He came to earth as Jesus, never did anything wrong, and then was killed in our place. Now we have a choice: we can pay for our sins ourselves, or we can believe that Jesus already paid for all of our sins and accept that payment as a free gift.

I told them I wanted Jesus to pay for my sins. They taught me how to pray. That night I met God. I have never felt more like I could fly than at that moment. I breathed deep. I told my sister about it and she joined me in prayer. Then I went to sleep, trusting my dad would get us home safely and knowing my God would someday bring our souls home safely.

I step into my parents’ bedroom. It smells like a hospital: disgustingly sterile. My dad’s body is there. His eyes are open. One is staring in a different direction than the other. His mouth is also wide open. It has been open for days. He slept with it open. My mom has turned off the oxygen machine and taken the breathing tubes out of his nose, he doesn’t need them anymore. The machine’s constant clicking and blowing was a reminder of how much it hurt him to breathe—but now the world sounds wrong.  We all step in, take a look, and leave. My mom is calling my uncles, they will be over soon. She says she has already called hospice. I say I am going downstairs to change since company will be coming.

My dad in Monterey, California

I hurry back up the stairs. One of my brothers is telling the other that he needs to touch my father in order to make it real. The other is protesting, saying he doesn’t need to. I brush by quickly and say, “Don’t push him into anything, we all grieve different.” Then I’m back in my parents’ room, alone with my father. I step up to him and place three fingers under his jawbone as if to take a pulse…I’m six years old, I’ve had a nightmare. I know if I wake my father up he will let me climb into bed and I’ll be safe. I can sleep easy…No. No. I’m twenty-six years old. I’m twenty-six years old and I’m touching his neck. His skin isn’t quite cold yet. He’s not waking up. He’s not moving. He’s dead. My dad is dead.

I say, “I love you Dad. I’ll see you later.”

I’m twenty-five years old, it’s Thanksgiving Break and I’ve made it to the hospital in Arkansas. My dad is in the hospital bed. He’s on the phone with our pastor. I hear him struggle to speak so I step into the bathroom to give him privacy. It’s on speakerphone so I can still hear. My dad is always worried cell phones will give us cancer, so he doesn’t like holding them up to his head. Our pastor doesn’t want to let my dad give up hope. He says, “There’s still a chance. You could survive…you’re not dying before me.” I stare at the sink because I don’t want to look in the mirror. My dad says, “No listen. You know the story of John Bradford, right? I want my kids to know. I want, after all this, the one thing they should learn from my life…‘There but for the grace of God go I’.”

I take my fingers off of my dad’s neck. I walk out of his bedroom and into the bathroom. I close the door, and I cry.


Brothers we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
— 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

Click here to learn about what exactly it was that changed my father’s life (the Gospel message).

Click here for the book this story is taken from: “Our Dad is Dead: and Other Fun Things to Talk About”.

Click here for more things written by Amanda Hovseth.

This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

What Does The Bible Say About Generosity And Giving?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
Well Jonathan, I'm not sure you got this question, but I think it's a great one. What does the Bible say about generosity and giving? What do you think?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, that's definitely one that I think, as I pastored for 10 years, I always remember hearing this question come up and even in our youth group. Our kids will ask a question that's similar to that. So I think as we look at this, I think a lot of times we think generosity and giving has to be financial and money, and I think we miss it when we just keep it to that. As we look in scripture, we can think of Exodus chapter 35. Here we see that the Israelites are generously giving materials and time to build the tabernacle. So we could be generous in the building of the church, the church building, or even we could take that a little bit further and think about helping our community. If there's, like, we have the firefighter ministry here in town, that when there's a house that's been affected by a fire, there's this community that pulls together to help that family. And so that's a huge thing; that's being generous. That's giving. We could look at Malachi, Malachi chapter three, and it says, "to bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. That there may be food in the house." And this is the part in scripture, the only part in scripture that God says, "test me in that tithing part of giving and generosity." And we think about the New Testament and we see that God gave His one and only son that God was generously giving to us as a human race. And so we could look at all of those things and we see where not only is God generous in giving to us, but also where we can be generous in giving back into our communities. Into our churches with tithes and offerings given to missionaries that are out in the field financially. but not only financially, but also in prayer and support that way. So we can't get stuck in where generosity, being generous and giving is just financial; but where it's also us being the hands and feet where we're willing to help out. At Cornerstone, we have a day once a month where we have a food pantry and there's a bunch of us that get together and hand out food into our community for a couple hours that day. That's an amazing opportunity for us to be generous and give back to help support families that are in need. And I know there's lots of churches here in town that do similar things too. Not only with a food pantry, but also I remember my pastor, when I first gave my life to the Lord, him and the men's group would go around and mow people's lawns and things like that where they were being able to give back into the community and show the love of Christ through that. And so I just would really challenge our listeners to really think about, "how can you give generously back into the community? Into your church?" Are you serving in your churches and being generous with your time and things like that. And then also your tithes and offerings too.

Garry Schick
Yeah, I think we tend to look at our money as, and I think you mentioned this in a previous episode, just sort of as an illustration of, "well, this is mine and maybe I'll give you a little bit." And it's just kind of in our nature as we go out into the world. We want to get the most bang for our buck. And so we actually have a mindset to give the least to get the most. When it comes to biblical giving, this is a different motivation. This isn't about getting, and I guess the little phrase that came into my head while you were talking was, "give to what you love." It's a different motivation when you are getting the gifts for your loved ones at Christmas. At that point you're not, hopefully you're not saying, "well okay, my wife has this list of desires. What's the least I can give her this year?" That sends up some red flags in all kinds of areas about your relationship with your wife, if that's the attitude. Usually it's more, "okay, what's the best I can do for my wife and my kids?" What's the most we can afford, and maybe even just a little bit more literally, giving till it hurts to make those we love happy. In the Old Testament, there was some tithing required, and in a sense, it was just a way of giving back to God kind of a minimum. You have this harvest, 10%, that's affordable, right? That's not too big a hurt. And at the same time, it supports the temple, it supports the priest. So it was, in a sense that tithing was kind of a tax and a fairly light one at that. I mean, we love to only have to give 10%, but the idea behind it actually came from a time before there was any law at all. The very first tithe, of course, is given in the book of Genesis by Abraham in chapter 14. Nobody's requiring him to give, but he gives a 10th of the spoils of war to the Lord through Melchizedek, the priest. In fact, it's not only mentioned in Genesis 14:20, but it's taken up again in Hebrews 7:2. And then in terms of the tabernacle, and I think you mentioned this, when they were first building it in Exodus 35:20-29, Moses just kind of throws the doors open for people to give of what they had received from Egypt, when they were in Egypt, and on their way out of Egypt for the building of God's place of worship. And the people gave so freely that Moses actually had to tell them to stop bringing in silver and gold and all the things that were used in the making and the furnishing of that. I mean, we actually studied this in Bible study recently. And my board chairman said, "yeah, when was the last time we told the people to stop giving on a Sunday?" I mean, that just happened so rarely. But you kind of do see it when churches pull together and they're doing a project. There's a building project or a fundraising campaign, or something that people are not just doing because they have to, but they're excited. They can kind of see something beautiful as an end result that will honor the Lord and that they can be a part of. And there's kind of an excitement there, and that I think really should be, as you were pointing out, just the heart of our giving. We see it again in 2 Chronicles 8:24 and following when the temple has kind of falling into disrepair, and at one point the priest put out a box and people just, every time it's full. They just empty it and they give the money to the builders, and they didn't even have to ask for a receipt or proof that the money was used. Well, everybody was on the same page. And again, it was just one of those things where everybody was doing all they could do. It wasn't a matter of, "well yeah, I'll go build at the temple and I'll put in the minimum and get the most out of it from those." No, it was, everybody was like, "Now look at God's temple. We need to get this thing fixed and I need some resources to do it with. But as a builder, I'm going to put my all into it." The people said, "we trust you," and they worked together. I love the passage in Ecclesiastes 11:1 where it says, "cast your bread upon the waters and you will find it in many days." It's a beautiful thing. And you mentioned from Malachi, where God actually asks the people to test him. If you'll give, you just see how I will abundantly reward you, above and beyond. You know, in Philippians, many of us are familiar with the passage where Paul says, "and my God, will meet all your needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. But the context of that is where Paul had been in some need, and the Philippians had freely given to them just out of their love for him. And so one of the ways that we love God is to support those who are doing His work and to use our resources toward evangelism. Toward the support of your local church and ministries toward missionaries. And I mean, you can put it all on the plate and designate it one way or another. You can just put it in the general fund. You can pick specific missionaries that you give directly to. I mean, the Bible doesn't say, "here's how you give, where you give, when you give." I love when Paul says in Corinthians, he says, "remember this, whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly; but he who sows generously will reap generously. Each should give out of what he has decided in his own heart, not reluctantly or compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver." As you pointed out, God freely gives to us. He doesn't owe us anything ever, but He freely cares for us. And that 10% or whatever---and I think 10%, even in the Old Testament was kind of considered a minimum and we shouldn't be looking, so we're kind of like, "oh, so you're saying it's got to be more than that?" No, I'm not. I'm saying, what can you in faith say, "okay, you have entrusted to me; I give back to you God because I love you and I'm grateful for how you are providing for me and my family." And it's the attitude of gratitude out of a heart of gratitude. With an attitude of gratitude we give to what we love. If the love isn't there, don't do it. If you're not grateful, don't do it. But heart check, do you know the Lord? I mean, have you pondered how He has poured out His mercies and love upon you through Christ? When that becomes the motivation then it's, man, "what can I do to really invest in it and look at it that way?" When we give to a cause, we may not directly receive the dividend, so to speak. You would if you threw it in the stock market, and you're supporting a company that you like and you're hoping to get back from them. This is a different kind of, 'get back.' You are giving to the Lord to say, "wow, and how will He use that?" And He does. He takes the little we give and He multiplies it, like Jesus did with the bread and the loaves. I mean, I've seen it in church functions. I remember once, and I've heard about it where it was sort of a funeral dinner and the lady said it just wasn't quite enough, but then it was enough. Well, how did that happen? They brought out of their hearts what they had, and, "Oh, we're going to be short. There's more people here than we thought," but wait a minute. It went to the very last person. How did that happen? God blesses it, and sometimes He does the miracles and sometimes somebody runs out and buys some more rolls. I mean, it's not even about looking for a miracle, it's just looking to love God and knowing that He's going to love us back in return; in a physical and a practical way. We are physical beings. Yes, we worship in spirit and truth, but we worship with our whole being. And giving is one of those ways that in a concrete way, we can be a part of what God is physically doing in this world. And what a great idea as we enter the new year, and some of us have annual meetings coming up and some of them, they had happen toward the end of last year. But no matter where you're at, if you're part of a church that you love, sit down with your wife or if you're a single person, sit down and just kind of look at your finances and say, "okay, what can I do to really make this thing go this year? How can I bless and be a part of in a positive way?" Not giving in a way that takes control, like, "okay, I'll give if--" no, that is not the standard. It's, how can I just be a part and not only, as you pointed out, not only in our physical giving that should be there, but just in other ways. How can I help out? How can I get involved? How can I take of the gifts that God has given me, the strengths, the talents, the spiritual gifts, the interests? How can I channel that into loving God, building His church, encouraging others, sharing the good news of Christ to world that needs it?

Reading the Bible in a Year

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
Well Jonathan, I want to welcome you into the, kind of really, as I started this I thought, we'll do this for a week. And then last week I was like, "yeah, this is good," two weeks. But I really think what we're going to talk about today is a great conclusion and it's something I'm so passionate about, listeners, which is why I just keep laying it before you. A couple of weeks ago, I laid before them a reading challenge. And I don't know what path or plans you follow. In my own life, I do something different every year. But one of the simple ways I've found to get through the whole Bible in a year is just three chapters a day, Monday through Friday and four chapters a day on the weekends. And if you want to do the Old and New Testament at the same time, it'd be one chapter a day. Monday through Friday of the New Testament, and then a couple chapters a day Monday through Friday of the Old Testament, and then four chapters on the weekend. And then for those who are like, "I want to spend a little time in Psalms and Proverbs," take those four chapters a day in the Old Testament on the weekends and just make two of those chapters on Saturday from the Psalms and two of those chapters on Sunday, one from Psalms, one from Proverbs. Or Ecclesiastes or Song of Solomon and the Solomon's writings. But anyway, a great way to get through. And I know there's many paths through the Bible, and even just reading the Bible in years, not always a good idea. I just spent the last four with a study Bible, just getting a little closer to it. And so that's what we talked about last week, was digging deeper into the word and just some of, I mean, there's so much more I could have talked about. How to do word studies; basically where you look up, and take something like Strong's Concordance, which you can find online. And just, what are the passages in that book? In Paul's letters or John's writings, or whatever you're in. Or even the whole New Testament or the whole Bible or whatever. But taking as much time as you have, not more, but if you're a retired person, you might really have some time to really mine out the riches of God's word, and just using your study Bible for all it's worth. But today, I just wanted to, and I know I camped on it a little bit the first week and probably even more last week. But ultimately, the goal is not just to know more, but to know the Lord and to walk in His ways and to feed on His word. And so I've got some thoughts, but Jonathan, in your own life, not just as a pastor, but also as a man of God, what are some ways that you feed on and draw strength from, and apply the word of God in your own life? I mean, as teachers we know how to do that, but bringing it home, how's that happen for you?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so I think the first verse that really pops out to me at times comes up with John chapter 15. And this is, "I'm the vine." And man, the first time I read through that, I don't think I really understood it. There's a lot of the Bible I read throughout the first time and I didn't understand it.

Garry Schick
Thank you for that honesty. We do. We are learners too when we get there.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, and so just as I look at this and it says, "I'm the vine, you're the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing." So when I look at that, I'm like, "wow, I'm so intertwined. I'm so close." You know, like a branch, they intertwine with each other and it strengthens them. And as we intertwine ourselves, in that sense, with God, think about how much that strengthens us to stay strong as we're connected to God. We receive the nutrition that we need for each and every day. And so, as we read through the Bible, I think early on in my walk, it became more of a, I've got to clock in, read the Bible, clock out, go to work. And it became, what do you want to say? A chore in a sense. And I never received anything out of that. Obviously, God's word's going to go out and it's going to take root, but there just wasn't things that were really opening up for me early in my walk. And I think one of the big things that really helped open that up was joining the men's Bible study at our church. And just hearing how some of these other mature Christians were reading and getting things. And I'm like, "Where did you get that? That doesn't even make sense. How did that work out?" I didn't get that when I read that. And just sitting there and watching them just really pull things out of the word from what God's, the Holy Spirit's showing them in there. And that really helped open up my eyes and see, "okay, well what am I doing that isn't helping me, I guess in that sense, in reading the word?" And so as I've seen that, I was like, okay, for one, I am doing it as a chore. I'm not doing it out of a relationship, out of love with God. And so as I moved into reading it to build relationship with God and not, "oh, I'm doing the Christian thing," it really helped me grow in a lot of my walk. And so that was a big thing. One of the things too that, and I can't remember the pastor that does this, but he talks about, every year he reads a different translation. That's a great way, just seeing it from one type of writing I guess, or language use to another, helped open up some scriptures for him or seeing it in a different light, I guess. And so I've tried that. I've always read out of the new King James. That's just kind of what my parents, my uncle was a pastor, and I think that's the bible that he gave me.

Jonathan Hernandez
And so that's usually my go-to. Then I was able to read through some different ones, the NIV and you know, different translations and stuff. And so, that helped open up some things. But I think the big thing is that when you get into the word, you're doing it out of a relationship that you want to know Him more. And so when I look at John 15, it's THAT. It's that relationship. The byproduct of being in that relationship is going to be allowing the word to come out in my life. And then I see, just like tithing. I gave my church five bucks when I was going, "I'll give you five bucks, but the rest is mine." Until I started understanding some more of the scriptures and things, and then I was like, "okay, well giving five bucks, that's not giving it with a joy for heart." My heart was like, "that's my money." And so then as the more I was in the word and the more that the fruit started being buried, it was like, "okay, now I understand. Now I am able to tithe and it's not out of a heart of, "this is my money." Now it's, "okay God, I'm giving joyfully to you." And that comes out too in Evangelism. I am, by myself, more of an introvert. More, I want to be myself type of thought. But when I allow the word of God to come into my life, and the fruit of that is everywhere we look in scripture, there's community. It's always community. We see community everywhere. And so that was really something that helped me learn that I need to live in community. And it's okay if I'm an introvert, but let's get out of that shell a little bit. And that was a byproduct of being in the word. That was the, living it out, part. Now I'm able to talk to other people, show people who Christ is and things like that. So I think the more that you're in the word, sometimes you'll start doing things that you don't realize that you're doing. It starts to shape your perspective.

Garry Schick
Well, good stuff. And that is such a passage because ultimately, as Paul says elsewhere, "it is he who works in us or in you to do and accomplish according to His good purpose." But there is a part of it that we're responsible for too. And I guess as we think about this, here's an acronym that I've taught kids, in terms of just figuring out how to apply. So where's the connect point? A great little acronym for how the Bible applies to your life is the word S.P.E.A.K. SPEAK. S is for sin. In the scripture you've just read, is there a sin to avoid or to confess or to repent of? P is for promise. Is there a promise? It's not just made from God to Abraham, but I mean, is there something there for us too? or a promise that Jesus is making to all believers or that Paul or James or John are saying that apply to us? Is there a promise to trust God for? E - is there an example to learn from? And I say, "to learn from," because there are some examples in scripture that we want to follow that, "wow, yeah, this is how Jesus, he started his day in prayer, I should do that." Or Daniel, he'd spent three times a day in prayer and, "oh, that's a great, I can learn from that." But there's also examples like, "oh, that one didn't work out so well." Like, you know, David. He didn't go out to battle like he should have, with the kings, and ended up staying home. And next thing you know, he's there with Bathsheba, committing sin and covering it up and what a mess. I mean, it basically dogged him for the rest of his life. So, that's not an example to follow. You don't want to do that. But you look at that and you go, "oh my goodness, how is it that he left himself open to that sexual temptation and sin that led to all of those horrific consequences in his life?" And what are some of the weak spots in your life, or mine, where we just need to go, "hey, I don't want to leave myself open to that." Or maybe it's something else totally different than that, but you just say, "I don't want to go there." And so you look at the example. Whether it's him or Saul; when he partly honored what God said, but only went halfway. And ultimately Samuel was like, "you know what? The Lord honors obedience more than sacrifice," or whatever. So we can learn from the good examples, "do this," and the bad examples, "avoid that." But it's not all about doing. The next one, the letter A, is one of my favorites. It's awe, awe of who God is. Is there something you've just read in your Bible that just stops you in your tracks and you go, "Ah! God is awesome." And just to reverence Him in worship. And then the last one, K, is for keep the commands, because there's a ton of them. Not just the 10 commandments, or even the great ones to love God and love others, but keep what God is. And frankly, as a teacher, I do this all the time without even thinking about that. Okay, so here is where we're going, but we also need to bring it home closer than that. Maybe those are all great applications of the word, but I also think it needs to kind of come back to that prayerful, "Lord, what do you want me to get out of this?" And I loved your honesty, Jonathan. Sometimes we read a passage, and nothing clicks right away. But I think sometimes, if we're prayerful, "Lord, is there something in your word that I read today that I just need to carry with me?" And a great verse that speaks to my heart is Joshua 1:8, "do not let this book of the law depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night that you may be careful to do everything that is written in it. And in so doing, you will make your way prosperous and successful." So there's these two sides of it. There's what God does in us. He will perform, He will do, He accomplishes His good work. But there's also our response. And I looked up that the Hebrew word for meditate, it's the word hagah. And it means to mourn, growl, utter muse, moan, meditate, to devise, to kind of plot in your mind, to speak it forth. And I think when we're meditating, it's basically to mumble it. It is just like this...is kind of what you're talking about, your breath. Just the other day I was thinking about what Mary did when the shepherds had been there. And they're spreading the word and it says, "Mary kept, or treasured, all these things in her heart, and pondered them in her heart. And the Greek word, there's actually a, what is it? It's Sumballo, it means she threw it around in her head. We're constantly throwing thoughts around in our head, but are we throwing around in our head the things of God? Because that ultimately, I think, feeds our souls. And so listeners, I guess of all that I would said, if you would just take a word or a phrase from the word and having read it, having rightly understood it. Dug a little deeper, but then read, reflect, dig deeper, and then renew. Bring that, carry that word or phrase with you and let God feed your heart through the day from that passage of scripture. Whatever He's led you to that day, and let Him, like a shepherd, lead you to the green pastures of His word. The calm waters of His word. It's more than just, "I've read it, God said it, I believe it. Good." It's even more than just digging deeper. Now I understand some great things. And letting God show you what He wants you to do with it. Meditate on it, that you may be careful to actually now do. And in so doing, you will have made, we talk about how God blesses us. But it says, in so doing, you will have made your way prosperous and successful. You will have brought yourself to a better place and a closer walk. And it's amazing how God can take just a word or a phrase of scripture, and just give us strength in the tough moments and joy. Well, some thoughts. Jonathan, I don't know if you have some more, but what a great way to look into the year. Let's go deeper, closer, step-by-step with Jesus. Do you know one of the most repeated words in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament is the word for walk. It's a daily walk with. We'd love to run to our goals, but to really get to life change. It comes walking day by day with the Lord.

A Warning from a Dream

I have this recurring nightmare…

“Crowd In a Park” by Francisco de Goya

I am outside somewhere where kids are playing, usually a public park, and it’s packed, there are people everywhere.

Nearby there is a large building, with an entrance close to us which leads into an elaborate glass walled and ceilinged room. Further along there is another entrance which leads to a less elaborate, but cozy windowless basement.

Everything is fine and happy for a little while, but then something changes in the air and as I look off into the distance, I notice dark clouds.

The clouds begin to twist as the wind picks up. I watch as a thick and massive funnel drops to the ground. Next to it, another thinner spindly funnel begins to zigzag down, behind that another one, and they just keep appearing. The sun is blotted out as the horizon fills with countless tornadoes, but somehow, I am the only one who seems to have noticed.

“Tornado Storm 1 Collage” by Steve Ohlsen

I start to yell to the crowds, “Look! Tornadoes are coming! Quick, get inside! Go to that door over there that leads to this building’s basement!” 

A few people hear me, turn to see the tornadoes, grab their kids, and run off in the direction of the building. But most people act as if I don’t exist. I try to get in their faces, to get their attention. A couple more notice me and run in the direction of safety. Most still ignore me.

“Look!” I yell. “Those tornadoes are coming and they will kill us all if we don’t take shelter right now! We are running out of time!”

I start to get desperate and physically grab some heads and turn them in the direction of the tornadoes. A few acknowledge the danger and run towards safety but some other people look at the tornadoes, shrug, and continue on with what they are doing. 

I consider running to safety myself and leaving everyone who is ignoring me to their fate, but I decide that while I still have time, I will keep trying because maybe someone just hasn’t had the chance to hear my warning yet.

I run to the other side of the park while continuing to yell my warning, a few more run to safety but most people keep ignoring me. 

I’m now at my wits end. I decide that just because the adults are foolish, doesn’t mean the kids should die. I start grabbing and carrying as many kids as I can down to the entrance to the basement door. I funnel them inside and tell the adults already there to watch them as I run back to the park to grab more. I continue this pattern, until the tornadoes are practically on top of us. With a pile of kids in my arms and on my back I make one last trip toward the basement door. 

But on this trip I realize there is a line of people forming outside the door to the above-ground, glass-walled room. In front of the line is a table with people selling tickets to the glass room. There is a big sign on the table which says, “Safety from the storm here, only $10 a person”.

I am furious. I drop off the kids I’m carrying inside the basement door and then run back to the line. The wind from the tornadoes is so loud I have to get right next to each person in line, yelling in their ear for them to hear me. “They are lying to you, this does not lead to safety. A glass room cannot keep you safe from a tornado. They are charging you and you will die. But right over there is a door to the basement, you will be safe there, and it is free to get in. Go over there, quick!”

I tell every single person. A few listen and run to safety, again, most do not.

They roll their eyes and scoff. “Who are you?” they say. “Why should we listen to you? These people are traditionally known for providing safety from storms. They have centuries of experience. What could you possibly know about it?”

“They are scamming you!” I yell. “Look! You can easily see with your own eyes that the room is made of glass!”

The people left in the line do not care. So, I push my way past the ticket table and run into the glass room to try to warn the people already inside. 

“Everyone! You are not safe here! Those tornadoes will shatter this glass and the shards will tear right through you!” I point to a door towards the back of the room that leads to the basement. “You have to get downstairs! It’s free to go down there and you will actually be safe there!”

Some people actually listen, they can see the tornadoes through the glass and have already been concerned for a while, my words were all they needed to have their fears confirmed. They run to safety in the basement. 

But most people ignore me. Either they don’t think I know what I’m talking about or they have already invested so much money and time into getting into this glass room that they refuse to admit it is a scam. I try to physically pull people towards the basement. They fight my efforts to save them. 

The tornadoes are on top of us so I finally give up and duck into the safety of the basement.

Then I wake up. 


It isn’t a mystery to me why this nightmare plagues me. It’s a clear illustration of what has torn at my heart every single day since I first learned about the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us.

Some people don’t know about the impending danger or the free salvation which has been provided, and it is my job, along with every other Christian, to tell people about it.

The tornadoes in my dreams represent judgment day, which we will all face after death. Even if we are ignoring it, it is still there, looming on the horizon.

But, like the door to the safety of the basement, there is shelter from the consequences of that day available. Christ took on the punishment for our sins, Himself, so that we wouldn't have to. He paid the price of our shortcomings.

We just have to decide if we still want to pay for our failings ourselves and face God’s judgment, or if we want to accept Jesus’s payment as our own. His payment is free, just as the door to safety in the basement was free to enter. 

“Blind Faith” by Ciro Marchetti

However, there are other forces at work and other people in the world who are only out for themselves. They will give you a long list of things they claim you must do to pay for your sins and it usually includes giving them money. They claim that if you choose their way, to pay for your sins yourself, you will be saved from the judgment seat of God. But their way offers no protection from God’s judgment. You cannot not pay for your sins with man-made traditions or offerings.

Hebrews 10:1-3;8-14 (NIV) “The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins….

First he [Jesus] said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”

You cannot undo your mistakes by covering them with good deeds. The mistakes are still there, you will still have to pay for them. The glass room cannot keep you safe from tornadoes, no matter how much you pay to get into it.

The only way to not have to face the consequences of your own sins, is to let someone else face those consequences for you. And that person cannot have their own sins to pay for or they would spend all their time paying for those and couldn’t pay for ours.

Jesus was able to live a sinless life because He is God. He came down to earth as a man in order to fulfill the Old Testament Law by living a sinless life and then take on the consequences of sin for us, because He loves us. Jesus offers us safety from those consequences, and he offers it for free, all we have to do is choose to accept His free offer and “take shelter in the basement”.

1 John 4:10 (NIV): “This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.”

Galatians 2:19-21 (NIV): “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV): “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.”


This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

Click here for more things written by Amanda Hovseth.

What's New in the Cross Reference Library?

Disruptive Thinking - For most of our lives, we are encouraged to trudge along the well-worn paths of those who have come before us. We learn the rules – in our families, in our schools, in our workplaces, in our churches – and most of the messages we receive tell us that following the rules will allow us to arrive at the lives we desire. But when change becomes not only desirable but also urgently necessary, this way of being no longer serves us. In fact, in every human endeavor, every major leap forward, has involved a cataclysmic challenge to existing ways of thinking and being. Breakthroughs, by definition, run against the grain and almost always encounter skepticism and opposition. In this book for leaders, thinkers, doers, and creators, Bishop T.D. Jakes illuminates the pathway to encouraging and unleashing disruptive thinking and provides the wisdom and practical skills we need to evolve our most original and potentially transformational ideas from vision to reality. Through his insight into how our minds and emotions work and through his experiences as a pastor, entrepreneur, and creator, Bishop Jakes leads us into a new way of relating to and transforming the world around us for good. Disruptive Thinking will show you the mindset and the tools you need to create groundbreaking and meaningful change in your own life and in the world around you.

Relationship Goals - Wondering if you should break up? Feeling like you could break down? How about discovering a breakthrough in all your relationships and finding fulfillment like never before? This start-right-here study guide based on Michael Todd’s Relationship Goals takes the targets you have for your relationships and adds the coaching you need to steady your aim. As you and your small group, friends, or significant other write, reflect, pray, listen, and discuss your way through this guide, you’ll discover the practical tools and strategic space you need to move your relationships from “We’re okay” to “We’re better than ever.” We’re talking friendships, marriage, dating, even ideas for relating well to the person in the next cubicle. Because having strong relationships means having a strong purpose in life—and who doesn’t want that? So set your eyes on the goals that will help you win in relationships.

What Is Hanukkah?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Garry Schick.

Garry Schick
So good to be together and here we are in the midst of Advent, and today is actually the first day of Hanukkah, which as Christians, we've all heard of it. We know it's a Jewish holiday. And I came up with this question because today is the first day of it. I thought, what I bet a lot of people wonder, "what is Hanukkah, and why don't I find it in my Bible?" I mean, at least in the Old Testament. And so Jonathan, you want to get us started on that, and does it have any significance for Christians?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so I think my extent of Hanukkah was what you said. I knew that it was a Jewish holiday and that was really a lot of it. And so we look at the word, Hanukkah, it's a Hebrew word for dedication. And so this was the Festival of Lights I think, is what it's also known as. So Hanukkah is an eight day Jewish holiday celebrating the rededication of the temple in Jerusalem that happened in the second century BC. And so they had this candle that they had lit, but they only had, this was during the rebuilding or whatever of the temple, and they only had enough oil for one day. And so they light the candle and the miracle of it was that the candle lasted the eight days. And so we see that that's kind of where we see the eight days of Hanukkah or the different significance in there. And so I guess we don't really see it in the Bible. If you look into the Bible, you're not going to see something about Hanukkah. But if you were to look in the book of Maccabee's, I believe it was, that you can see some of the things that had happened here. And, you know, how can we as believers, how is Hanukkah celebrated in light of being believers in Christ? And so we can look at Hanukkah as a testament of God's faithfulness to the Jewish people by preserving them through war and persecution. His faithfulness and fulfilling his promises that He produces the Messiah through the line of David. And so there's a lot of things that, if we look at all of these different things and what's celebrated during Hanukkah, we can see where as Christians, we can celebrate some of those things also. So I mean, I think that's a lot of things. We can look at it and celebrate with the Jewish people through some of those things too, and encourage them through their time of celebration. It's not a time for us to just kind of sit back and, "oh, I don't understand," or things like that. I know when I was in high school, I had a friend that would celebrate it and I would just kind of, "oh, that's cool." I didn't understand it. I also wasn't a believer at that time either. But how can we help them celebrate it? Also through just encouraging them and being part of that. One of the other things is that, Hanukkah reminds us of God's faithfulness. Like I said, past, present, and future to His church. What is He doing? What has He done? And what is He going to do? Those are some exciting things through that. So yeah.

Garry Schick
Exactly. So for our listeners, the Protestant Bible, I guess we could say it that way, which is exactly the same as the Jewish Bible by the way. We have the same books and our Old Testament as, okay, so the Jewish Bible doesn't have the New Testament, but Protestant and Jews have the exact same 39 books in the Old Testament of which were originally written in Hebrew and a little bit in Arabic. So that Old Testament ends 400 years before Christ. And so there's what we call the silent years, except that they weren't really completely silent. It's true, God wasn't conveying to the Jewish people revelation during that time, but there was still history happening. Now, if you look at the Roman Catholic Bible, they have a few more books and you mentioned one of them. There's 1st, 2nd, I think there's four books of Maccabees, and the Maccabee books in particular are history and they're accurate history of just what was happening in the Jewish nation in the time period leading up to Christ. Now, during that time, some horrific things happened. They were under terrible persecution from the Greeks. I think it was Antiochus Epiphanies who went into the temple, slaughtered a pig on the altar, which was just a horrific thing to do, outlawed the reading of the Torah punishable by death to read the law of God, to study it, to practice Judaism. I mean, basically he was forcibly going to turn the Jews into pagans and Greeks. And he didn't offer a pig on the Jewish alter to God. He offered it to, I think, Zeus. So, I mean, in every way it was a desecration. And then the Maccabees came in, and this is what this history tells. They had a revolt and they pushed the Greeks out. They basically were a bunch of freedom fighters who, they did, they pushed them out. And so in 2 Maccabees chapter 10, it tells the story of how when they rededicated the temple, they did, they had this 10 day celebration. And then it's not in Maccabees, it's actually in the Babylonian Talmud. So Maccabees, it's in Roman Catholic scripture. They have taken these books that we call the Apocrypha and considered them as part of scripture. But the Talmud, it's not part of anybody's scripture, but it's basically a tradition of Jewish teachings and stories. And that is where you actually get the story of, and when they dedicated the temple, there was just one day's worth of oil and it took a week to make the correct oil. And so they decided, "well, we're just going to burn one day's worth according to what the law tells us." And as it turns out, miraculously, it lasted eight days. That actually is a little bit, it seems to me, since it's not even part of their history, kind of a fable, like at Christmas. I don't want to get too far into this, but there are certain fables that everybody loves around Christmas time that a lot of people say, "I don't really know about that, but it's still a whole lot of fun." And yet then there's also the core thing. So the core thing in Hanukkah is that it is, and you mentioned, dedication. In fact, it is called the Feast of Dedication. And with that, did you know Hanukkah actually does appear in the Bible? Not in the Old Testament, but in John 20:22, it says, "then came the Feast of Dedication." My Bible footnote says, that is Hanukkah. Now in Jerusalem, it was winter, right about this time of year today actually. And Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's colonnade. The Jews gathered around him saying, "how long will you keep us in suspense if you are the Christ or the Messiah? Tell us plainly." And Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you did not believe the miracles I do in my father's name speak for me. But you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice. I know them. They follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand." What a beautiful thing, a feast that the Jews, to this day, called Feast of Dedication or also the Feast of Lights. Jesus is the light of the world, and when we are secure in him. We have the light of Christ. You'll see, and of course the menorah with that, with, what is it, the seven? Is it like seven candlestick on it? It's from the temple. That's a symbol of that. But in a kind of an interesting thing, there's actually nine candles associated with Hanukkah, one for each day. And then a center one called, the Servant candle, that lights the rest. We often find this in Jewish traditions. I find it in some things regarding their Passover too. There are things that just seem to symbolize Christ, and who is that servant candle that gives light to all the rest? It's Jesus, friends. And so we wish you Jesus today. And if you know some Jewish people say, "Hey, did you know that your Hanukkah shows up in my New Testament?" Jesus celebrated it, and He is the light of the world.

What's in The Cross Reference Library? Family at Christmastime!

Epiphany - Richard Lee may be gone, but he’s not yet departed. In this captivating Christmas novella, as the unseen observer of the family events that follow his own death, Richard watches his children return to their hometown to attend his funeral, settle the estate…and come to terms not only with their father’s passing, but with the disappointing direction each of their lives has taken. There is Jonathan, the starving artist whose talent languishes beneath a burden of failure. David, the family success story: practical, capable, worldly-wise…and cynical to the bitter bone, dying inside. And Ruth, a small-town girl who left for the big city in search of fulfillment she has yet to find. Powerless to act, Richard can do nothing to help his children resolve their struggles. He can only watch as pain and truth surface in each of their lives. But as secrets ;and surprises are revealed, the depths of a departed father’s love for his children and those around him emerges with poignant and redemptive clarity. And for Richard’s loved ones, healing at long last begins. 

A Family Christmas -Dr. James Dobson's A Family Christmas transports you to the delightful places you've been ... or perhaps to where you want to be. Featuring glowing scenes by internationally acclaimed artist G. Harvey, this richly meaningful gift book illustrates the importance of showing and celebrating love for our family, our friends, and our God. True stories of Christmas past, complete with Dr. Dobson's insightful and thought-provoking commentary, will bring warmth and rekindled joy to you and yours.

What’s in the Cross Reference Library? How can you spread kindness this Christmas Season?

Pony Express Christmas - Jeremiah Sparling, an inexperienced rancher, and his oldest son Noah are stranded on the trail from town when a blizzard hits. At home, Grace Sparling tries to hide her fears from her three young sons and feels guilty over the harsh words she exchanged with husband that morning. A Pony Express rider pushes himself and his horse through the storm, picturing a warm room and a hot meal at the other end. Will he stop to help Jeremiah and Noah? Does he sense the danger that lurks? And does he know that he carries with him the meaning of Christmas in a most unexpected way? 

Christmas Jars - Where did it come from? Whose money was it? Was I to spend it? Save it? Pass it on to someone more needy? Above all else, why was I chosen? Certainly there were others, countless others more needy than I…Her reporter’s intuition insisted that a remarkable story was on the verge of the front page. Rising newspaper reporter Hope Jensen uncovers the secret behind the “Christmas Jars” – glass jars filled with coins and bills anonymously given to people in need. But Hope discovers much more than she bargained for when some unexpected news sets off a chain reaction of kindness and brings above a Christmas Eve wish come true.

Every Christmas season, I tend to find so many blessings everywhere. Delicious Christmas food, light falling snow, and a big cup of hot chocolate. It’s a blessing to decorate the Christmas tree with my parents while listening to the Trans Siberian Orchestra Christmas Album. And I always get goosebumps when I hear my Grandma Purple play Hark The Herald Angels Sing on the piano. There are little things like these that make me feel very blessed during the Christmas season. One thing that makes me feel blessed through the whole year, and not just at Christmas, are good stories and books! And that is exactly what I get to be surrounded by everyday here at the Cross Reference Library. With that in mind, the Christmas books that I wanted to share this week are Pony Express Christmas and Christmas Jars. I chose these ones, because when I found them in our library, something really stuck out for me. The pony express rider and the family behind the Christmas Jars went the extra mile to show kindness on Christmas. The rider literally did. My challenge for anyone reading this is to not only show kindness during the Christmas season, but everyday. Demonstrating God’s love to everyone you come across. So come on into the Cross Reference Library and check out how you can spread kindness this Christmas season.

How Can We See People The Way God Does?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
Well, here's a question, actually, it's one that came to you, Jonathan. Which, I just think you've come up with some really great questions and our people have too. This has just been a fun fall, I think, in terms of some of the questions we've had.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, I have a friend that I rely on sometimes to get some questions to me if I can't think of things.

Gary Schick
Really? Well, I don't know who this friend is, but keep the questions coming. They're good ones. So here's the question, "but the Lord said to Samuel, 'do not consider his appearance or his height for I have rejected him.' The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart, 1 Samuel 16:7 NIV. How can we see people the way God does?" Great question!

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, that could be a very tough one, right? In our flesh, we'd like to see people the way we think they're acting, or that we think that they're doing something. And so we want to look at them that way. "Oh, these people are evil. These people are mean. That person's amazing, that person's great." So sometimes we want to see people in the light of our carnal mindset. And I think for us to be able to see people the way that God does, it comes with us being in a relationship with God. I am not going to see people the way God does if I have no relationship with God. I want to see them the way that my mindset sees them or how I see them, or how the world sees people. And so I think the first step for us would be, Hey, we need to be in relationship with God. We need to be in that relationship with God to have that mindset that he has towards people and how he sees people. And that all comes through our devotion life. If we don't have our devotion life in place, that's reading the Bible, praying, those type of disciplines. If we don't have those in place, we're not going to see people the way that God does. And so that's the first thing, is we have to make sure that we have that relationship with God. And then I'm not going to see people the way God sees them either if I'm not willing to be in relationship with them. I can have my own mindset towards somebody, but until I've interacted with them, until I've been active in their life, then I can see through the things that I think the world is saying of them. So those things are important to have, but it all comes down to how is God seeing them? If my identity is wrapped up in the world, I'm going to see everybody else's identity wrapped up in that. Gosh, we just need to get back to being people of the word. Getting back to that, my mind can't pull that scripture into my head. But we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, right? Ephesians, "we don't wrestle against flesh and blood." That's not what we're wrestling against. We're wrestling against the principalities, the powers of this dark world. And so when I see somebody and I don't see them the way that God does, I need to check myself and say, "okay, is my devotional life in place?" And if it is, then "okay, God, how are you seeing this person? Because you see this person as your son, as your daughter. You see this person as loved and as cherished." And so if my thought process of that person has anything other than that, then it's like, "Ooh, I need to get myself back in order." I need to line myself back with Christ. And a lot of us in our different workplaces, we deal with a lot of different people. And if we see these people as useless or worthless, then how are we ever going to help serve? I mean, gosh, Jesus was here and he served. He didn't come and say, "oh, well, this, this, worship me." He didn't force things; he served. And that was an example for us. How can I serve other people? And if I see them as useless or me above them, I'll never be able to be humble enough to serve them. And so my mindset wherever I go, "how can I worship God in what I'm doing now? How can I worship God in serving other people? How can I see these people as priceless? As sons and daughters of Christ?

Gary Schick
And I think it goes back, really, to a question you brought us a couple of weeks ago as we were approaching Thanksgiving, "how can we be the hands and feet of Jesus?" It starts with having the eyes and the heart of Jesus. And really it kind of reminds me in terms of that little tension between the way we see others and the way Jesus does of what happened the day that Jesus fed the 5,000. It's getting to be supper time, and the disciples are like, "Lord, send them away. Send them to the surrounding countryside in the villages so they can get some food." But what does it say? Jesus' response was, even when he first saw the crowd. It said that Jesus, when he saw the crowd waiting, he had compassion on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. And the Greek word for compassion there, basically it's translated in the old King James, "bowels of mercy." He felt it in the gut. And so it really does. It brings us back to that question that you had. Well, how do we get the eyes and the heart of Jesus? The other thing that reminds me of is back when I was in my first pastorate, a little Catholic hospital was nearby St. Mary's Hospital in Sparta, Wisconsin. Shout out to Sparta. And it was just a teeny hospital. Really, all the serious work got done down at St. Francis down in La Crosse, Wisconsin or Gunderson Lutheran. Those are the two big hospitals. Excellent places. But anyway, one of the reputations that they had was just such tremendous care, and there's nuns working there. And so somebody asked one of the nuns, "well, what's different about the way you, why do you treat the patients the way you do?" And they said, "well, we are taught right from the beginning of our becoming people who are---women who are dedicated to Christ as nuns, to treat everyone that we see and to care for everyone as if we were caring for Jesus." And part of me would go, "oh, that is so cool that they do that." Then I got to thinking, wait a minute. This isn't just something for Catholic monks and nuns. This is actually pretty biblical. Remember Jesus in Matthew when he's separating the sheep from the goats? He says, "you know what? I was hungry. You fed me. I was thirsty. You gave me a drink. I was a stranger. You took me in. I was sick. You visited me. Wait a minute. When did we see you, Lord? When did we do these things for you? Well, when you did it to the least of these...and then the goats, you're out of here. I was hungry. You didn't give me anything to eat. I was thirsty. You didn't give me anything to drink. I was sick. You didn't visit me. I was naked. You didn't give me clothes. Well, Lord, when did we neglect you? Well, when you neglected the least of these, you were doing it to me." So very biblical. And for all Christians, it starts with seeing others not only as Christ would, but as Christ himself. And so I just kind of want to wrap up with three things here. Three keys. I think number one: love. Let's remind ourselves as we, and I know people are honking at you as you're going down the road or whatever it is. It's so easy to get frustrated, especially in the chaos of this month leading up to Christmas. But love, remember whoever they are, however annoying or whatever the issue is. This is someone Christ died for, just like they died for you in your sin, in your less pretty moments. Respect. This is somebody that was made in God's image. Every human being was made in God's image. Now, that image has been distorted by sin. It's a fallen nature. But, the imago dei, the original image of God, it's still in there. He's got his fingerprints all over, each special creation, each person. Hope. Hope is important. We don't give up on people. That's something that our kids have watched in us over the years. We don't give up on each other. We don't even give up on our pets. Your story isn't written yet. And by the way, neither is the person across the table or across the room or down the hall. Their story isn't complete. No, this may not be a great chapter, but the story's not done. The ink isn't dry. If God can take an apostle Paul who's out there hunting down and persecuting and dragging off Christians, be stoned to death and thrown in jail, then He can turn around that person. What did it take for God to turn you around? And then faith. God is big enough to conquer any soul, but what a beautiful thing. He uses you and me and the process. Just as we wrap up, 1 Corinthians 13:13 comes to mind, "but these three remain faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these, of course, is love." But those are words not only to memorize and to ponder, but to live by and live out toward others.

What’s in the Cross Reference Library? Max Lucado Christmas Books

Cosmic Christmas - We know the Christmas characters well: the singing angels, the simple teenage girl, the surprised carpenter. But do we know all the characters? Do we know the whole story? What about the hidden happenings that might have led to the Savior’s birth? Was the arrival of Jesus a quietly profound event? Or could it have been the result of heavenly battles, angel armies, and a scheming Satan? Envision a confrontation in heaven between the King of creation and the rebellious Satan. Threats. Challenges. A gauntlet laid on the floor of the sky. And then the passage from heaven to earth - “There was a war in heaven” the Bible states (Revelation 12:7). Angels battling Satan’s armies as they transport the essence of heaven itself. Come along as author Max Lucado takes us on a journey into his imagination - pulling back the curtain as we see what might have taken place one “Cosmic Christmas.” 

One Incredible Moment - In one incredible moment the whole world changed when Jesus came to earth as a baby boy! Best-selling author Max Lucado has penned a Christmas book for the entire family as he examines how one unbelievable moment forever altered the lives of every person who has ever lived....from Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, and the wise men to those of us living in the new millennium. This unique Christmas gift book from Max Lucado features original photography and design.

Christmas Stories - These stories - like your favorite Christmas ornaments - come in all shapes and sizes. They unfold in a variety of settings, from ancient Bethlehem to rural England. From a small Texas town to the heavenly realms. Some are short. Others are many chapters long. Some offer reflections. Others imagine Christmas through the eyes of a burnt-out candle-maker, a lonely business man, or heavenly angels. “In the mystery of Christmas,” Max writes, “we find its majesty. The mystery of how God became flesh, why he chose to come, and how much he must love his people. Such mysteries can never get solved, just as love can never be diagrammed. Christmas is best pondered, not with logic, but imagination.” That’s what each of these unique christmas stories help us do. IN the midst of the bustle and hurry that often distracts us this time of year, these stories free us to explore the ways in which Christ’s coming has forever changed history - and us.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library?

The Practice of the Presence of Jesus - Brother Lawrence lived through the drudgeries of monastery kitchen duty during the turbulence of 1600s France. Joni Eareckson Tada suffered a terrible accident that broke her neck and left her paralyzed. This tragedy led her from a life of distant faith to a life as a devout Christian, and she later became a worldwide disability advocate and influencer, sharing her experiences of suffering with grace. In both their lives, they each found the secret to peace, joy, and a way of being in constant conversation with the Father . . . every day and every hour . . . practicing the presence of God. The Practice of the Presence of Jesus ushers in wisdom from these two everyday saints, more than 400 years apart, to teach and inspire you to experience the nearness of God in your life. Through rich devotional content from Brother Lawrence’s The Practice of the Presence of God, accompanied by original art and never-before-published insights from Joni, you’ll experience a unique blend of past and present wisdom on such themes as humility, thankfulness, fear, worship, obedience, and more. Each devotion ushers you into the peace of the Good Shepherd.

What Is Christianity's Greatest Need Today?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastor Michael Clement

Michael Clement
Some years ago, a pastor friend of mine in another city went through a difficult situation where he had had an assistant pastor and things didn't work out. And after it was all over, he shared with me some thoughts on needs within the Christian community. And he took those thoughts and developed them into a message with three points, and we're going to break up those three points that have three programs. One on each of those points. So the question is, what is Christianity's greatest need today? And I'd like to suggest that the first one is: a need for committed Christians. Let me read from Ecclesiastes 9:10. It says, "whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Friends, God has given us not only this life, but He has given us things to do. And in this life, is the only chance we have to do those things. The Bible tells us very little about what we're going to do in eternity and very little about what heaven's going to be like. We have some things in scripture, but not very much. And I think in part, that's because God wants us to be focused on here and now. And one of the things that I see is a need for Christians who are committed. There's generally a need for commitment in American culture today, but what is a problem for our culture is deadly for the church? A lack of commitment. Let me define that a little bit. For instance, we need believers who are first of all, committed to the Lord. You've heard what Jesus said, "if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." And that's not only in one of the gospel accounts. It's in Matthew 16:24, it's in Mark 8:34, and it's in Luke 9:23. God has included that statement of Jesus three times in His word. So what does it mean? Well, to deny yourself and to take up your cross and follow Him is the idea that we come to the Lord. Not just for salvation, not just so that we can have our sins forgiven; not just so that one day we get to go to heaven, but it's a commitment to live for Him. One of the great things that I enjoy doing is reading Christian biographies. Most of them are about missionaries, but some are about others that weren't missionaries, that served in some other way. And what I like to see and hear are Christians who take their Christianity home with them on Sunday. They live it in their homes with their family and they take it to work with them, and they live it in the workplace. And then they even take it when they're involved in entertainment and recreation and Christianity influences their whole life. That's a real joy to me as a pastor, and I believe it's a joy to the Father as well. Some years ago, I heard of a young man whose father was a minister. He was a teenager and he had just gotten a job working with a number of men who were not Christians. He came home one day, kind of discouraged, and his father asked him what the problem was. He said, "well," he said, "at lunchtime the guys always go to a bar, and they invited me and I said, 'no thank you,' but I didn't really give a good answer." He said, "I mumbled something about, 'my parents we're Christians and my church and so forth.' Dad, how can I be a better witness in a situation like that?" Well, his father prayed with him and gave him some advice, and one of the things his father said was, "maybe the next time something like that comes up, you can say, 'I gave my heart and life to Jesus Christ as my savior and my Lord, and I just don't think that's something he wants me to do." Well, the next day when the boy came home from work, he was all excited and he said, "Dad, I need to tell you what happened." He said, "same thing as before: at noon they all drove to this bar and they asked me to come in and I said what you told me to say, 'that I've given my life to Jesus Christ, my savior and Lord, and that's not something that I thought he would want me to do." And he said, "there's an older fellow there, and he looked at me and he kind of gave me a look of disgust." He said, "Dad, I just knew that guy had been around lazy Christians." He said, "so the rest of the day I worked twice as hard as anybody else." He said, "I really threw myself into it, and frankly, it almost killed me. But at the end of the day, that gentleman came up to me, put his arm around my shoulder and said, 'kid, you are all right."

Michael Clement
I love that story. Obeying the Lord should be my first priority. Oftentimes, I hear people say to me, "well, we moved but we couldn't find a church to go to and now we're struggling." And frankly, I think that if at all possible, that should have been a part of the decision whether or not to move. Some years ago, a family called me and they were living in another state and they started asking me questions about our church. What was it like? What did we teach? And after the guy got done talking to me and questioning me, he told me what was happening. He said he was, like, a foreman working in his company and the owner of the company had wanted him to find a place where they could buy another business like the one that they had there, and they wanted it closer to Kansas. And so he began calling around. He called different churches in different places, and he told me what he wanted to do was first find a church that he thought their family could go to, and then start looking to see if there was a business for sale, and that's what they did. I love that kind of thing. Find the church first. It also means that we need believers who are committed to their family. In 1 Timothy 5:8, it says this, "but if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." In recent years, we've had some fairly well-known Christians who have not just walked away from Christianity, they have publicly declared that they're no longer believers in Jesus Christ and that they're no longer participating in Christianity. And that was tragic. Many of you may know that in recent years there's been just a deluge of Christian young people who have gone to secular schools and then ended up, not just leaving one church and going to another one, leaving Christianity entirely and not going back at all. If somebody was to do that, we'd say, "well, that's just terrible." But this verse says that if somebody doesn't provide for their own families, then they're just like that person that walked away from the Christian faith. In fact, it says they're worse than an infidel or an unbeliever. We need Christians who are committed to their families. That are, first of all, they're concerned for the spiritual wellbeing of their family. They don't just send them to church, they take them to the church. And those kids get an opportunity to watch a mom and a dad who are committed to the Lord Jesus and showing them how to live. And then third, we need believers who are committed to their church. In Hebrews 10:25, it says, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as a manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more as you see the day approaching." The fact is today, that there are many who don't think a whole lot about the importance of the local church. Now, I believe in what's called the church universal. The church universal is comprised of all the believers who have ever received Jesus as their savior from the day of Pentecost until the rapture of the church. But that church hasn't had a single meeting. There's one planned. The first one is in the air when Jesus comes again for the church. But people that oftentimes will neglect the local church will likewise neglect prayer, they neglect Bible reading. They don't have somebody to encourage them to do what they're supposed to be doing. And so they need to be in church. Now, it's not so that it won't be empty. It's not so that the offerings would be bigger. And it's not so that visitors would be impressed. First of all, it's to meet your needs. People need a local church. Christians need a local church. And then it's for them to find a place to fulfill their duties and their responsibilities. And then finally, it's also to not be a stumbling block to other people. And I might add, it's also an act of obedience. In Matthew 18:6, Jesus said, but whosoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea." Oftentimes, Christians don't think about how their behavior, how their decisions, and how their lifestyle is affecting other people. But it does. We all need others. And that was said by God in the book of Genesis when he said, "it's not good for a man to be alone," and that then He created a woman to be with him. We need other people to encourage us and to keep us doing what we should be doing. And then also, we need believers who are committed to their calling. In Nehemiah 6:3, when Nehemiah was asked if he would go and talk to some of his critics and some of his enemies, he said, "I am doing a great work, so that I cannot come down: why should the work cease, whilst I leave it and come down to you?" Some could have said, "well, Nehemiah could have been a witness. He could have shared who Jehovah (God) was with these people." But that would involve him walking away from his first priority. And his first priority was to do what God is calling him. Building a wall is more important than witnessing to the lost. Well, not really, but doing the will of God is more important than anything. There's a song that is oftentimes sung in church. It's Blessed Be The Tie That Binds. And the story behind that was, there was a pastor who had been a pastor for a very long time in a very small church. And he finally was noticed by a bigger church in another city and they invited him to be their pastor. Well, he was planning on leaving and the church got together for a farewell. And when they did that, people one after another stood up and said what that pastor had meant to them and how he had been a blessing to them until finally the pastor said, "how can I leave? You people are breaking my heart." And he sent a message to the larger church and said, "I'm sorry. I can't come. This is where God wants me to be." We need Christians who are totally committed to the Lord in every facet of their work, and I pray that's you. May God bless you.

What’s in the Cross Reference Library? A Story Worth Telling

Epic - This dramatic retelling of the gospel illuminates the unique role we can play in the amazing story God is telling. Sure, good things happen, sometimes beautiful things. But tragic things happen too. What does it mean? We find ourselves in the middle of a story that is sometimes wonderful, sometimes awful, usually a confusing mixture of both, and we haven’t a clue how to make sense of it all. No wonder we keep losing heart. We need to know the rest of the story. For when we were born, we were born into the midst of a great story begun before the dawn of time. A story of adventure, of risk and loss, heroism . . . and betrayal. A story where good is warring against evil, danger lurks around every corner, and glorious deeds wait to be done. Think of all those stories you’ve ever loved. There’s a reason they stirred your heart. They’ve been trying to tell you about the true Epic ever since you were young. There is a larger story and you have a crucial role to play.

Keeping a Princess Heart - How can a woman live with hope . . . in the midst of reality? You were once a little girl, dreaming of "happily ever after" like a fairy-tale princess. But unlike the fantasy world of Sleeping Beauty or Cinderella, reality has hit you hard. Living in the not-so-fairy-tale world of laundry, kids, carpools, and your sometimes not-so-charming prince, you wonder how your heart will survive, because what you have isn't even close to what you hoped for. Hang on! Real hope is found in the tension between the two?in an invisible kingdom. This place is where you discover the true heart of a princess. One full of dreams, wonder, delight, and joy. With rich insights and compelling stories, Nicole helps you discover the timeless truths that can transform a woman's heart into the heart of a princess. You are recognized by the King, loved by the Prince, and promised the happiest "happily ever after" of all times.

A Different Kind of Love Story - For anyone who has ever struggled with their identity, Landra Young Hughes has a radically simple message: give up. Specifically, give up your need to be in control of how other people see you. Instead, let God's words--not yours and not others'--define you. Through her own deeply personal story of trying to control her circumstances and others' perceptions of her through an eating disorder, Landra points the way toward a life free from self-obsession and self-resentment. She shows you how to listen to God's voice, let go of the struggle for perfection, and live authentically from your deepest self.

People love stories. Whether it’s a TV show, movie, a book, or even the news, we want to know what happens next. Plots and characters, different places and journeys. And you know, if you start to read through the Bible, every book from Genesis to Revelation, has a story to tell. In Genesis, there is a new character and plot revealed with every chapter. I will say, God is probably THE BEST AND ULTIMATE AUTHOR! His penmen did not hold back when they were going about writing everything that was going on. One of my favorite examples of this is the last verse of Nehemiah 1, “O Lord, let your ear be attentive to the prayer of your servant, and to the prayer of your servants who delight to fear your name, and give success to your servant today, and grant him mercy in the sight of this man.’

Now I was cupbearer to the king.” 

I just think it is so epic how right after this heartfelt prayer there is a real statement of, “this is who I am and I am ready to serve the Lord.” The story of Esther is another good example, because God isn’t really mentioned but He sure-as-heck had a part! In Esther 4:14 it says, “For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father's house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?” For such a time as this. You know, when I was reading Epic for this post, one of the things that John Eldredge said was, “What will happen next? You don’t get to know—you have to enter in and take the journey as it comes.” As THE author, God knows our stories. He knows our stories better than we do. Proverbs 16:9 says, “In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.” So as sons and daughters of the King, how are we living out the stories that have been established for us? Are we remembering to trust the Lord as we continue to move forward? Let’s live our stories well, honoring the author everyday. I greatly recommend all 3 of these books! So come on into the Cross Reference Library and check them out.

Why Would The Israelites Build A Pillar To Remember What God Did?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
Hey, so here's a question that apparently came to you, and I think it's a great one. It says---a question a friend sent to you---"in the Old Testament, whenever God did something or led people somewhere, they would build a pillar to remind them of what God had done. Why don't we still do that?"

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, that's a pretty good question, isn't it?

Gary Schick
Yeah, there you go. So what do you think?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so just like the question asked, when we look and read through the Old Testament, we see where something amazing happens or something big happens, and the people were to build an altar to the Lord. And a lot of times, we would see that they would name that place a certain thing. We see in Genesis 35:1-7, this is where Jacob, he names the place El Bethel, because it was there that God revealed himself to him when he was fleeing from his brother. So we see some of these places; God does something big or leads somebody through something and then they were to name that place, whatever it may be, like here. And you know, I think, okay, so why aren't we doing that currently now? And I think in some instances, we do. Not to the level of what we see in the Old Testament. But when something big happens in our lives, a lot of times we see people will write that down in a journal. This is a place of remembrance that God did something amazing. And here it is, I think a big one for us, that I think sometimes we look over, is what we call our testimony. God did something amazing in our lives, and so now we have this testimony of what God has done. And I hope that we're going around telling people about our testimony, not just holding that into ourselves. But it's a place of remembrance. "What did God do for us? Well, God delivered me from, whatever it may be." Another great thing is salvation. The day that we gave our lives to the Lord is a huge moment in our lives.

Gary Schick
Yup

Jonathan Hernandez
That's a huge testimony. That's a part of our testimony that we can tell people, "God did this for me." You know, for me and my life, when I really allowed God to speak into my life, the Holy Spirit just really helped lead me to the front of the church, to give my life to Christ. That was a big place in my life, and I remember that. I can drive by the church and say, "in that church is where God really took ahold of me, and I was able to actually start listening to Him." You know before, I was just like, "meh, I don't know. No, I don't know." And so, what has God done in our lives? And we can see that and say, okay, here's an altar in that sense; what God has done for us. I guess we don't see us building something miraculous and then naming it, at least not in my life. I haven't done that. But I mean, we could look at a few different things. The church as an alter. This is a place, if we think about the alters, there's places in the Old Testament where they---Moses led the people through the Red Sea, and at the end they sung praises. They had that whole song that they sang, and this is what they're doing. They're really singing to the Lord, worshiping Him for what He just did in their lives. In church, we sing songs of worship in places of remembrance of what God has done, and we pour our hearts out to Him. And like I said in the earlier one, it would've been more of a personal altar, something that God has done personally for us or has led us out of a situation or through a situation. And the same thing, we would sing phrases to Him or we would give thanksgiving to Him. And you know, those are amazing places where we can just really reflect on what God has done. Communion would be another one. A place of remembrance, right? Of what He's done for us. Yeah, that's kind of that place of worship. And that's another one we could say, that's kind of an altar type of thing that we go back and remember what He's done and then we worship Him through that. So I say, we kind of still do some of it, maybe not to that level that we see in the Old Testament, I guess.

Gary Schick
And it's really not commanded in scripture, it's just something they did. They built an altar, at the point of Bethel, poured some oil over a stone. Said this is Beth El, which means House of God, because God appeared. And they also did it to some degree as a nation. And by the way, we do it too. We put up statues and commemorative monuments all over the place as historical markers. Where battles have been fought and won, where different things have happened; where 9/11 happened. I mean, we mark places as a nation, that's just something people do. But in terms of spiritual markers and pillars, I guess when I read that question, immediately what came to mind, it's kind of an older book now, but I think it's just as relevant as ever. So if people are not familiar with it, I would really like to kind of point you in the direction of the book called, "Experiencing God." I don't know if they even have copies over at our local Christian bookstore or not. I know at one point, it was all over the place. You know, it's funny how as a culture we kind of, "oh, this is the book like The Prayer of Jabez," which was a great book. And then after a while, "oh okay, we did that and it's gone." Well no, if there was truth there, then maybe we need to take note of some of those things. So anyway, Blackaby wrote this great book called, Experiencing God. And in it he talks about how we can discern God's will in our lives through what God says in His word. Through moments in prayer, through the encouragement and guidances of others. And he has a chapter in there talking about how God uses our circumstances and our life experiences. And in that chapter, he talks about physical markers of spiritual encounters. And actually, I just want to read a little paragraph out of that. He writes, "when Israel crossed the Jordan River into the Promised Land, God gave Joshua the following instructions: Choose 12 men from the people, one man from each tribe and command them. Take 12 stones from this place in the middle of the Jordan where the priest's feet are standing. Carry them with you and set them down at the place where you spend the night, Joshua 4:2-3. These stones were to serve as a monument to the Israelites. Joshua explains, 'this will be a sign among you in the future. When your children ask you, 'what do these stones mean to you?' You should tell them, 'the waters of the Jordan were cut off in front of the Ark of the Lord's covenant. When it crossed the Jordan, the Jordan's waters were cut off. Therefore, these stones will always be a memorial for the Israelites,' Joshua 4:6-7." And then Blackaby goes on and says, "the stones were to be a visible reminder of God's mighty act in providing for His people in Old Testament times. Others also built altars or set up stones as significant encounters with God." And he notes Noah in Genesis 6-8, Abraham in Genesis 12 & 13, Isaac in Genesis 26, Jacob---as we are pointing out---in Genesis 28 & 35, Moses in Exodus 17 & 24, Joshua in Joshua 3-4, Gideon in Judges 6, Samuel in 1 Samuel 7. Places like Bethel, which you talked about (House of God). Rehoboth, which means room, because God made room for His people. These became reminders of God's activity in the midst of His people. Blackaby writes, "Moses named an altar, The Lord is my Banner. And Samuel named a stone Ebenezer saying, 'thus far the Lord has helped us.' 1 Samuel 7:12; then Blackaby notes, "These altars and stones were physical markers of great spiritual encounters with God. They provided opportunities for parents to teach their children about God's activity on behalf of His people." So notice, these are all in the Old Testament. So it seems to stop there, but I'll tell you what: there's one final marker in the Bible. It's the cross of Calvary. There is one final marker where God meets with mankind in the ultimate way and pays the price for our sin. The last, the final altar is Jesus on that cross and then coming out of the empty tomb. So those are markers for us. And then I love how you pointed out; our conversion is a point. And Blackaby goes on and talks about these in our own lives as points of transition, decision, or direction where we clearly see God guiding us. And so listeners, maybe we're not building a pillar, so to speak, or a monument, but this can be, I think, a healthy exercise in looking at how God works in your life. So take a look back. What are the moments when those crossroad moments, like when Jacob was at Bethel or when you encountered Christ at his cross, where he saved you? Where He's directed you, where He's provided for you, where He's guided you. Maybe you're at a crossroads right now, and looking back at how God has worked before. It can both encourage you, and you know what? God met me at that crossroad in the past and guided me forward. And maybe you'll even see a pattern there in terms of helping you to discern. Blackaby talks about in his own life, there were three different ways he could go, all good, but which one seemed to fit the way that God would move him forward into the next step in his life? And that can sometimes be a help to us in terms of seeing, not only God at work in the past, but God's hand pointing in the present on into the future that He has for us. And I just kind of thought about this: a well-used Bible is a well-marked Bible. And as you were talking about that, I thought, you know, I have at different points, underlined scriptures because they stood out in some way. And some of those scriptures, I've gone back to again and again, and they have become, those very words of God speaking into my life, have become markers in my life that God has used over and over again. And so listeners, if you've got one of those well-marked Bibles at a point of discouragement or crossroads, maybe it's time to go back and look at some of the things that you've underlined and how God has spoken to you before and what he might be saying to you from those passages again. And if your Bible is not well-marked, well get her open. And as God uses a scripture in your life at different points, make sure to highlight it. Maybe put some stars around it. Maybe even make note of a day, the date, and maybe even a reason why that was pertinent in your life at that moment. Because God's word not only tells us the things God has done in the past, but it speaks to us in our present and guides us into our future. To His praise; to Him be the glory both now and forever!

How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 2 of 4)

Transcribed from Sermons by Bruce Peterson at Grace Chapel in Scottsbluff, NE. The video of this sermon can be found by clicking this link.

For a printable list of the primary verses to use when sharing the Gospel via this method, click on this link.

We are in the Book of Revelation this morning. Our launching text is Revelation 20:11-15.

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These are super foundational verses in how to witness to someone—how to help someone else that you know and love come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's a super important section of its own right in the Book of Revelation, but because it's so substantial in how to witness to somebody I thought we would do a mini series on how to evangelize.

If you don't have faith in Jesus Christ, I hope you get saved during this series. If you are hearing this for the first time, I hope you come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's an amazing gift of God that he would offer us salvation.


Last week I talked about focusing on the gap between us and God.

We talked about the verses which show us the problem: God says we have to be holy like he is holy.

The consequence to that is: you are going to stand before God and give an account of what you’ve done.

We learned last week that there's actually an angel in heaven who is writing down in books everything we think, say, or do. It's an accounting of our debt to God. This should crush people.


When you are telling people the Gospel you want to start off by crushing them. I mean that. You will know you have done your job well when they ask for the solution to their sin problem.

They'll ask, “Okay, what am I supposed to do?”

But let me qualify this, most importantly, when you are explaining the giant gulf between God and them, do not use their personal sins as your example. If you're talking to someone who you know is having an affair with their wife, don't bring it up. Don't bring up their addictions. Don't bring up their habits. Don't.

This is because we all fall short, as humanity, we all fall short. You don't have to pick their particular sin and drive home that one, because, if you do that, a wall is going to go up between you and them and they will not hear you. That's not the goal.

The goal isn’t to offend them, it’s to open their heart up to hear God.
— Bruce Peterson

The goal is not to offend them, it’s to open their heart up to hear God. And if you pick their particular sin; like, “I know you’re embezzling money at work.” They will be like, “Okay, conversation’s over.”

Don't do that, don't. Instead, look inside yourself and just be open, be honest, be like, “Let me just pour out how I feel inadequate before God.”

Believe me, if you do that they will get on board with you; like, “Oh, I too feel inadequate. I too am not the perfect husband. I too am not the perfect father. I too am not the perfect employee. I too don't love God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. I don't do it, I love me.”

That's all easily demonstrated by our time, by our checkbooks, by our lives. Don't pick their pet sin, don’t even bring it up, it doesn't matter, that's irrelevant. Those things are hot buttons in people's lives and if you touch that, they're going to get defensive. That's not the goal at all.

So, crush them because they're humans and humans have no right; we have no claim to self-righteousness. Humans have no righteousness, we're not good in general.


Let me read the text and then I'm going to give you another illustration that I like to use when I'm trying to demonstrate the gap between us and God. This is our launching text:

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Okay, so that's our launching text. Interestingly enough, it's not at the end of the Book of Revelation, it’s in chapter 20 and there's 22 chapters. Why is this? Because everyone whose name is in the Book of Life goes into the Kingdom of God which is on a new planet in a new city—the city of Jerusalem—and we live happily ever after.

But, who gets into the Kingdom of God? Not everyone goes in. You have to have your name in the Book of Life. Notice, if your name is in the Book of Life you get to go in.

But, if you have books--plural--what's in the books? Every sin.

What is sin? By definition, it means to miss the mark.

What's the mark? Holiness. Anything that's not holy that you participate in is sin.

Okay, let's narrow that down. What do you do that's holy?

What do you do that God would also do? It's a pretty small list, isn't it?

Let me ask you this, what do you do or think that God would not do or think? That one's easy. That's big, right? We missed the mark. We sin all the time.

But, people tend to think they're good. Most people you talk to will think they're good enough for Heaven, or at least they're good enough that they shouldn't go to Hell.

God says that's not true. No one is holy, not even one (Romans 3:9-20), that's last week's sermon.




Here's one of my favorite illustrations for this:

I like to picture Holiness as God saying, “You can get into heaven if you can swim to Hawaii.”

The question is, is it possible?

Saeed Khan/AFP/Getty Images

Imagine California, there's the beach, all of Humanity is on that beach. The waves are rolling in, and the goal is Hawaii. We're all gonna give it our best shot. We're gonna, because we gotta, we gotta get to Hawaii, because we want to get to Heaven. We don't want to drown, we want to get there, we want to go.

So, from California, imagine the masses just going into the ocean. Some of them aren't going very far. Some of them are just going to hit that first wave and they're just going to keep getting caught in that wave. Those are bad people, because this represents going to Heaven by good works, by earning it.

Unsplash.com

From the shore of California, it's going to become evident that people are going to begin to separate themselves.

There are the really bad, who just tumble in the waves and you know they're done.

There's going to be some who just start swimming super hard and they're at the head of the pack, but before they're out of sight they're done, because they're out of energy. They didn’t pace themselves. They're gonna seem good comparatively. From the shores of California, some people seem good.

Do you know what the world record is for long distance swimming? I looked it up. It is the exact distance from here (Grace Chapel in Scottsbluff) to Fort Collins, if you go through Kimball. 155 miles swimming. I don't even like driving to Fort Collins…swimming there? I could swim across the parking lot, I think.

But the goal isn’t to swim to Fort Collins, it’s Alaska--2,400 miles away. That's how far Hawaii is by the way.

iStockphoto.com

So, from California, from the perspective of holiness, some people look amazing. Some people--no question--are so much better than other people. We're not all equals. If we're just talking straight goodness, there's people in this room who are tumbling in the shoreline, and there are people who are swimming out there pretty good. They're good people. I don't think we have any 155 mile people in the room, let's be honest, we're in that 20 mile range, pretty good.

But, if you’re looking out from Hawaii… “Hey, all of humanity is trying to swim here, let’s stand on the shore and wait for them.” And the best swimmer is 100 miles from California... How long are we going to wait? We're going to wait forever, because no one, no one, no one can swim to Hawaii, it's 2,400 miles! The world record is 155 miles!

Unsplash.com

From your perspective you think you're good. But if I had a graph and you looked at the whole graph divided into 2400 segments and the best was 100…If you had to take a test and to pass you had to get 2400, but the best you got was 150…on the graph it’s almost a flat line. No one is good enough, no one is good.

That’s the idea that you’re trying to get across. You don't have to kill them on their personal sin, but you do have to get them to see that they are gauging it wrong. They are saying, “I'm the best swimmer.” Well that may be true, I don't take that away from you, you are way better than me, but you're still not getting away with your sin. You're just not going to do it. Your goodness can't carry you all the way across.

They are gauging it wrong, saying, ‘I’m the best swimmer.’ Well that may be true, I don’t take that away from you, you are way better than me, but you’re still not getting away with your sin. You’re just not going to do it. Your goodness can’t carry you all the way across.
— Bruce Peterson

That's point one of the Gospel. Stay on that point until they ask for the solution.


Now we're going to get into the point of today's sermon: Jesus is the hero.

Once they ask for a solution, here's the big point you want to get across: God wants them in Heaven. Say it to them, “God wants you in Heaven, more than you want to go to Heaven. God wants you not in Hell, more than you don't want to go to Hell. No one wants you in Heaven more than God does.

Here's the amazing news, God made a way so that you can know you're going to Heaven.

People think God says, “Be good to go to Heaven.” You are showing them that God says that idea is wrong, instead, he sent a champion to rescue you. Jesus is the hero of the story.
— Bruce Peterson

He wants to be able to demonstrate all of his promises to you fully. He wants you in his Kingdom. He wants you in his family. God isn’t trying to keep you out, he's trying to get you in. You don't have to try things for yourself, there is a way God has provided. He has made the way.

Your job is to show them how Jesus is God's declared winner. People think God says, “Be good to go to Heaven.” You are showing them that God says that idea is wrong, instead, he sent a champion to rescue you. Jesus is the hero of the story.

Colossians 2:9-15 (NIV)

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

This text explains the solution to Revelation 20.

THE PROBLEM: be holy.

THE CONSEQUENCE: judgment is coming.

THE SOLUTION: what God accomplished through Jesus.


Again, when I am talking someone into faith—into trusting Christ—it's usually about a two and a half hour conversation, so you shouldn't be in a hurry on any of it.

Your goal is to explain everything. You want them to understand so that they can choose on their own to make this decision. Take your time.


Okay, let’s take a closer look at these Colossians verses, they're amazing:

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness.

It gets way better than that…

He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands.

That’s probably going to confuse the person you’re talking to, but it explains it in this next sentence:

Your whole self…

All your badness…

…ruled by the flesh was put off…

…was put off. That's what it means to be “circumcised”, to be cut off, your whole “everything opposed to you” was put off, your whole flesh.

Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Next Paul is going to explain all of that, this is where it gets good.

What does “uncircumcised” represent? When you still have books. All the badness is still attached to you. Now, watch what he says here:

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh…

This sounds like we're just busting into this conversation a little oddly, but in real life I've just spent 45 minutes demonstrating to them that they're a sinner, and this has all been one conversation.

So, I ask them to tell me what they are doing in these verses to save themselves. Who's the hero in these stories, you or God? How much in this verse are you responsible for?

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh…

What is the person doing so far? Sinning. That's all they're doing.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ.

Who did it? God did it.

He forgave us all our sins…

Here’s how he did that:

…having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.

That's where you should cheer.

What did he take away in the terms of Revelation? The books. What are the books in Revelation? They are a record of your legal indebtedness. Sin is a debt. You have moral debt before God. He says, “Be perfect.” You’re not perfect.

You have a real debt you owe to God and you’re going to be asked, how would you like to pay?
— Bruce Peterson

It's the exact same thing as a parent when you tell your kid to do something that is expected and they just give you the bird. There's moral debt, that's a real problem. That's a real issue. It's not just nothing. There's an angel and every single time you know God wants you to do something and you don't do it, it gets written down. You have a real debt you owe to God and you're going to be asked, how would you like to pay?

Look what Paul says happens, Paul said God took the record of your legal indebtedness and he took it away.

Where did it go? He nailed it to the cross.

…he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Now, I'm not going to be just reading this verse to the person I’m telling the Gospel to, I'm going to be helping this person understand it. I'm going to demonstrate it. I'm going to talk about it:

Look, here's the plan, God took all those books and he put them on Jesus. He sent a champion. You can't pay for those books. Your good works aren't going to pay for them. We are expected to be good: be holy. Goodness is not a payment, it’s what you were supposed to always be doing, it’s the baseline. Everything that gets written down is debt.

What are you going to do with that debt?

Remember, we went over the numbers. How big is the number, the accounting of your debt? It's massive. How many times a day, counting your thought life, do you do stuff that is written down as debt? It's a ridiculous number. At the end of our lives these are big books.

God took the books away from you. He cut everything off. That's what it means that he circumcised you: he cut off everything that stood opposed to you, your whole legal indebtedness. And he nailed it to the cross.

Now, I’m going to have a Bible right in front of them and they are going to read Colossians 2:9-15 themselves. Then I’ll ask them:

When Jesus says that he forgave us, how much did he forgive? All of it.

What does it say that Jesus did? Jesus paid for our sin. God wants you in Heaven more than you want to go to Heaven.

What are you doing? You're sinning.

What do you do according to God to save yourself; what in this verse do you do? Nothing.

While you were dead, while you are sitting there right now, God has already taken all your guilt and put it on Jesus. Jesus paid for your sin. Not at the moment when you believe, he isn't in Heaven dying again and again, he paid for it one time. One time for all and all your books are dealt with.

“Unburdened” by Douglas Ramsey from “The Pilgrim’s Progress” book

If you have built up enough fear about the books in the first part of your conversation, this information is a pretty big relief for them. In real life that feels like a lot of weight that you piled on them and when they see that God accomplished this task all that weight gets lifted off and they will physically lighten up in the conversation.

The charge of our legal indebtedness which stood against us and condemned us, was taken away by God and he nailed it to the cross.

And having disarmed the powers and authorities he made a public spectacle of them.

Who or what did he make a public spectacle of? The books, but also the prosecuting attorney who would have prosecuted you for the stuff written in those books. The powers and authorities which would take your debt and hold it against you. The voice of guilt. Whatever those are, whoever those are, however that's going to work, God made a public spectacle of them.

What does it mean if I make a public spectacle of something? Am I doing something positive? No, I'm making a joke of it.

Listen to what happens here, God takes our books, he knows it all, he knows everything, it's all written down. And not only did God the Father take your debt and nail it to his own Son on the cross, but he didn't just barely cover your books, he didn't just barely take your guilt.

If you could barely pay off your debt at the bank did you make a public spectacle of your debt? No, you did not. If you have debt at the bank and you could make a public spectacle of your debt, how much money would you have to have? A lot.

The point is, “Oh, I owe you 10 bucks? Well, here's a million bucks.” That's a public spectacle, it's paying way way more than you owe.

That's the Globetrotters against their rivals the Washington Generals (the other fake team). The Globetrotters make a public spectacle against the opposing team because they can take that ball and do all that fun stuff. They're setting it up so it's no contest.

Jesus didn't just pay for our sin; God did not just destroy our books; he rocked the debt, he annihilated the debt. I'm not just close to being saved, I'm not going to get there and see my debt is just barely paid and that I slid in by the skin of my teeth.

God wants you saved so much that when he sent Jesus as the champion, he overpaid so much that the debt is a public spectacle. God takes your books and destroys them.

God wants you saved so much that when he sent Jesus as the champion, he overpaid so much that the debt is a public spectacle. God takes your books and destroys them.
— Bruce Peterson

When I get to heaven I will have no books, zero books. I'll have no books. The angel watching my life has already been fired. There's no one in heaven keeping a record of my sin. It's gone. It's literally gone. I have no books.

Then I ask the person I’m talking to: You know me, am I perfect? No.

I'll say: listen, I am not better than you. Chances are you're better than me, or at least we're pretty equal. I'm not better than you in any regard. But you still have an angel keeping record of your books. I do not, because God wants me saved. The thing is, he wants you saved too and you can get that angel fired today. Because Jesus triumphed over your debt, your debt is gone. You don't have to have books when you show up.

The whole idea is that you're at this scene we're there's two options: there's books or a book. You're either hearing what’s written in the books of your debt or you're hearing your name called from the Book of Life. I'm going to hear my name called from the Book of Life. (That's next week's sermon by the way.)

How do you get this to apply to you? we'll get to that in a second, but let me keep telling you about Jesus, because what God accomplished through him is amazing.

So, I'll say those words and I'll give them a little head’s by saying, “There is something for you to do, but it has nothing to do with saving yourself. But that's coming later.”


All right, so, do you see why I spend time in that verse? I go right from Revelation to Colossians because you have books, but you can also have those books thrown away before you get there. You can have them erased. All those books can be nailed to the cross and and be triumphed over so that they're gone.

Next, I'm going to go to Romans. I'm going to try to explain how it works because what's important is this:

  • God is just.

  • Sin creates real debt and God is not just a crooked banker who is your best friend and will simply make it go away through accounting tricks. No, no, no, no, God isn't doing some accounting tricks here.

  • Jesus is actually going to pay. Your debt was actually nailed to the cross. When Jesus is on that cross for you, he is actually paying your calculated debt. The Old Testament idea of it is that the whole lamb had to be measured to make sure there was enough, that it covered everyone at the meal. But the New Testament idea is that every sin has to be paid for on the cross.

  • Jesus paid so much that it's triumphed over. It's not going to be even close.

Jesus actually pays for it, the debt is paid, it's not just erased, Jesus pays for our sin.

Romans 3:9-20 (NIV)

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

“Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.”

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

“Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.”

“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

We read, “There's no one righteous, not even one,” and I just had that conversation with them. So, I say, “Look, here's God's evaluation of people: no one's good, not even one. No one seeks God. No one cares. Everyday we throw him under the bus.”

Then we look at what God does in the very next verses. I remind them to think about three things as the read these verses:

  • What are these verses saying that we do?

  • What does God expect us to do?

  • Who is the hero: God or us?

Romans 3:21-25 (NIV)

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.  God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

What that's saying is: now, apart from being good—because it said that the purpose of the law was to point out our sin to us so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable. So, now set that aside—apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been made known without us earning it.

We can “tap into” the righteousness of God.

In the Old Testament God talked about the fact that he would do this one day.

This is what he says now: this righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ… to who?… to all who believe.

Here's what happened…

all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 

I'll come back to this but I read right over it the first time through because I want to get to this:

God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood

I'll stop. I'll read it again. I'll have them read it. And I'll say, “Here's what happened, a sacrifice of atonement means that Jesus was the satisfactory sacrifice for your sin. You have debt that you can't pay. You have a mountain of debt. I'm telling you this now and when we are done with this conversation you're going to go sin some more. All you do is make more and more and more sin. God wants you saved more than you want to be saved. God Wants You in Heaven more than you want to be in Heaven. To accomplish that he made a payment for your sin. He a satisfactory sacrifice. Jesus Paid It All so that you don't have to pay it. That's what we just read in Colossians, this is Romans, Jesus is the sacrifice. Jesus’ sacrificed satisfied the wrath of God for your sin. Jesus is the hero.”

Then I'll back up a little bit:

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned…

What do we do in this text? We are the Sinners. That's what we're doing, sin.

and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 

To be “justified” is to be declared innocent. We can be declared innocent freely by Grace.

What is Grace? Stuff you get that you shouldn't. Good things that happen that shouldn't happen, that you don't deserve.

You can be declared innocent. Your books can be thrown away because Jesus paid your debt.

You're making debt. You're making it every day. God wants you saved. So he paid your debt.

Listen to 1 John 2:1-2 they are awesome verses:

1 John 2:1-2 (NIV)

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

What's an advocate? If you have an advocate what do you have? You have someone who speaks for you. You have someone to defend you. You have someone on your side, in your corner.

Who do you have according to this verse? Jesus. Jesus, the one who paid your debt is in your corner if you have him.

You have debt so what should you have? You should have books. What do you have? You have Jesus in your corner.

Why? What might Jesus be saying if he's your Advocate and the subject is sin?

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.

I don't want you to sin. Sin is not good for you.

But if anybody does sin…

So, we're not talking about when you're good.

…we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

When is Jesus speaking for you, when you're good or bad? This verse says it, it is when you're bad. Jesus speaks up when you sin.

Who would Jesus say it to? He would say it to his Father and he would say it maybe to the prosecuting attorney—those ones who he triumphed over who he made a public spectacle of? It might be them. But he's saying it to whoever is your critic.

What might he be saying? He's going to say something like, “Oh yeah, I already paid for that. Oh I already covered that. Oh that's already forgiven. Oh don't write that down, his name's in The Book of Life.”

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin.

God doesn't want you to sin. I'm not telling you should go out and sin. Sin's bad for you on lots of levels. It's bad for your life. It's bad for your relationships. It's bad for everything in your world. Sin's bad.

But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins

He's the one who paid. That's probably what he's gonna say, “Oh, I paid for that.

Oh, I paid for that one too.”

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus paid for your sin. God knows your sin.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
— Romans 5:8 (NIV)

What are we doing in this text? Sinning. That's always the right answer for everyone. God knows us. That's why we can be honest: I'm a sinner, God loves me anyhow.

Listen, you have an advocate with God, even though you've sinned all the time.

Back to the swimming analogy: you think that your swimming is going to get you saved. But, God knows you only have like a mile left and you're going to drown. You are not going to make it.

watercolor luxury Yacht on the beautiful blue ocean. Hand drawn illustration, Free Vector Free Vector by adhito alfattah

Here's the amazing news: you don't have to make it. There's a Lifeboat! You can stop swimming right now and you can get in the boat. Forget the Lifeboat, there's a yacht going by and everyone in the yacht is just taking it easy.

Jesus is that yacht. Jesus took all the weight of sin that's dragging you to the bottom of the ocean and he got rid of it. And he didn't just get rid of it, he lifts you into the boat. He paid the debt.

He didn't just pay my debt, he paid your debt. I'm telling you now I know I'm going to Heaven and it's not because I'm good, it's because I'm sitting back in a Lifeboat. I'm going to trust God who sent the Savior for me.


So, I'm still trying to make Jesus big in their mind.

Here's the last verse I use and it's just phenomenal…though these are all really solid verses in their own right that just decimate our sin.

Our sin is not the barrier, the sin has been conquered by Christ...You do not have to convince God you’re good enough to go to Heaven. That is not the challenge. The the only question is who’s on the hook for your behavior?
— Bruce Peterson

Our sin is not the barrier, the sin has been conquered by Christ. You don't have to convince yourself you're not a sinner. You do not have to convince God you're good enough to go to Heaven. That is not the challenge. The the only question is who's on the hook for your behavior?

Are you still on the hook? Then you're in for a world of trouble.

God is saying he's glad, he's happy to take the hook for you.

Listen to this next text. This next text is so full, you can spend a lot of conversation time with someone over this text. You should just know this text. It should just really be like bread and butter in your life. It's so important.

The author of the book of Hebrews is comparing Jesus and showing him to be superior to everything in the Old Testament. In this particular text he's showing Jesus to be better than the priesthood and his sacrifice better than the sacrifice of the sacrifices in the Old Testament.

So, Jesus is being compared to the ritual of sacrifice, which, by the way, I'll take time to explain this concept to them. This is something we all do, we are stuck in this ritual with God when we feel guilt we make a deal with him: “If you get me off the hook…”You know, we make these vows and these promises. You go to church and you've been trained to confess your sin, you've been trained to do Penance for your sin. You've been trained to repent of your sin. You've been trained in all of these ways in some kind of mechanism to be right with God and God is saying it's all garbage.

Jesus is the hero who deals with our sin, not our behavior.

I'll say all of that and then have them read these verses:

Hebrews 10:11-18 (NIV)

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

“This is the covenant I will make with them
    after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.”

Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
    I will remember no more.”

And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

We all do the first verse:

Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

iStock photo

This is what we do as humans. We feel guilty, so what do we do? We buy our wife flowers. We go to church for a couple weeks. We'll put a little extra money in the offering. I'm feeling particularly bad, I'm gonna do a little bit extra. Whatever it is…we'll listen to a podcast. We'll do some kind of ritual.

God is saying those rituals are worthless because they don't actually cancel our the sin. You know from illustrations, like let’s go back to relationships. If you're cheating on your wife, is buying her flowers helpful? No, it’s not that helpful. But that's what we do all the time.

We don't stop what we're doing that’s making us feel guilty; we're not good at that. What we're good at is trying to do these little things which we can try to convince ourselves makes up for it. And we just build in these rituals into our lives that are meaningless. They don't work anywhere in life but we think they'll work with God.

They don't work.

What does your spouse want? Different behavior. They want a behavior change. They don't want flowers. They don't want cards or a night out. They want you to be different.

Your rituals don't work in life. They don't work for your boss. We want better behavior. We don't want, like, funnier jokes during lunch. That's not enough.

But when this priest—meaning Jesus—offered…for what? All time. But when Jesus offered for everyone all over the world for all time, when he offered one sacrifice for sin, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool.

What did he do? He sat down.

Why? Because his sacrifice was enough. He sat down for all time.

How many sacrifices? One sacrifice.

He has, what? Made perfect…

For how long? Forever. Those who are still in progress.

Are they a finished product? No.

So, what are they doing? Sinning. They're not perfect yet; they're not finished products yet. But…

For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever…

Now, you look across the table and you say: “Do I look perfect to you?” They will say,  “No.” Am I perfect? “No.”

But we're talking about holiness, and here's the truth: because of the one sacrifice by Jesus, I have no books. I have no books. And at the great trial, when all Humanity…when I stand before God…and you stand before God, there'll be no books for me.

What's in the books? Sin. I will have no sin on my account.

So, what does that make me? Perfect. I'll have no accusers. I'll answer for nothing.

When it's time for me to open my mouth, who will speak for me? Jesus.

Why? Because, he's my Advocate. I have an advocate.

When you stand before God what are you hoping for? A blue ribbon? For what? Swimming?

When I get there, Jesus, the Son of God, is my advocate and I have no books. My books are gone, God's words about me say:

For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

He knows I'm not perfect. I'm still in progress. I'm only in progress because God is moving me that way. I might have a long progress to go, the progress is irrelevant, I'm already made perfect forever. Watch:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

“This is the covenant I will make with them
    after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.”

God is going to move his word into us. It is going to go from tablets of stone to inside us: “I will write them on their hearts”.

Then he adds this:

“Their sins and lawless acts
    I will remember no more.”

And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

“And where these have been forgiven,” is past tense.

What does God expect of me? Sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

So here's the thing, I can look at you and I'll say, “I know I'm going to Heaven. I know I'm not better than you. God wants us to get to Heaven and this is God's plan. He wants you in Heaven.

Here's what God did to get you to Heaven: he sent his son who paid your debt. He paid for it if you accept it, or not, if you take advantage of it, or not, your debt's already paid.

I took advantage of it I have no books. You are still living your life trying to make your books smaller. How's it going? How big do you think your books are? They're pretty big.

I have no books. I have been made perfect. my slate has been cleaned forever. I will get there and I'll have no books and I will have an Advocate. I'm telling you that's what God did for you, and you can have also have an Advocate instead of books.

My name is in the Book of Life. I don't have books anymore. This is what Jesus did for us, it's a profound truth.


“Forgiven” by Thomas Black

Take your time, make them feel guilty, and then pull that guilt right off of them and put it squarely onto Jesus.

Jesus took your debt all your secret sins that you're doing—they're not secret to God—but they're already paid for. Jesus paid for them when he died on the cross.

They're going to want to know more. They're going to want to ask, ‘How does that count for me? What do I have to do?”

Then we're going to move into Faith.

The answer for them is: you're going to get to choose. As simple as that, you get to choose. Do you want to speak for yourself or do you want Jesus to speak for you?

That's the transition, you make them feel guilty (not with personal sins out of their life, you don't want them to put a wall up). Everyone's a sinner, then, Jesus takes that sin, all of it. You put the weight of their sin on them and then you take it off of them and put it squarely on Jesus.

And they literally get lighter right in your presence. Then you're going to give them the choice to believe. That's what we'll talk about next week.

Let's pray: Father, God, we do again come before you with grateful hearts that you love us enough that you want us to be saved that you love us enough that you took our debt, you paid our bill, it's an amazing privilege. It's an amazing truth.


In “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 3)” we will start talking about the choice people have: to believe in Jesus or not. Click here for Part 3.

Click here for “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part1)”.


This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

Click here for more things written or transcribed by Amanda Hovseth.




































What Led Lucifer To Sin?

You can listen to Ask The Pastor every weekday at 9:00am MST on 97.1FM Hope Radio KCMI! You can also listen and subscribe to Ask The Pastor in your favorite podcast feed. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Amazon Music and most other podcast services.

This edition of Ask the Pastor features Pastors Johnathan Hernandez and Gary Schick.

Gary Schick
Hey, I've got a kind of interesting question today. "What led Lucifer to sin?" You know, in the light of all the evil in the world, I mean, with what's going on in Israel and Ukraine and just the condition of our own country. Sometimes I think we forget, we tend to look at all the problems in the world and we think of all the people involved. And to be sure, human beings really don't need any help to make a mess. But what does the scripture tell us? Ephesians 6:12, "for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm." Sometimes I think we forget there is such a thing as evil out there. In fact, it's what led the human race to sin. It was Satan who came along and tempted Adam and Eve and he's still doing what he does. So Jonathan, what are some things you were able to dig up on the subject of Lucifer and his fall?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so just looking at some scripture we see in Ezekiel 28:14,15, it says, "you were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were the holy mountain of God. You walked back and forth in the midst of the fiery stones. You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you." So here we see them talking about Lucifer. And then if we look at Isaiah 14:12--15, we see here it says, "how you are fallen from heaven, Lucifer, son of the morning. How you are cut down to the ground, you who weaken the nations. For you have said in your heart, 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will also sit on the mountain of the congregation of the furthest side of the north. I will send above the heights of the clouds. I will be like the most high." Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol to the lowest depths of the pit." So we think about what led Lucifer to sin, and it was really that place of pride. He wanted to be who everybody worshiped. And that's not the case. We were not created to worship Satan. Right? That's furthest from the truth.

Gary Schick
There are people that do though, apparently in the world.

Jonathan Hernandez
Oh yeah. And so we look at that, and I think as believers also, we need to realize Satan and God are on the same level, not opposites. Satan and Jesus, they're not opposites. Lucifer isn't God, He wasn't a God. He never will be a God. He was an angel. And so if we're looking for someone that would be in the sense of an opposite I guess of him, we would think of Gabriel or Michael or another angel. And so I think as believers, we need to make sure we have that right. Also, that when we're thinking of God, we're not saying, "Satan's the opposite," because then I think we start getting into some crazy theology and different things that start going in opposite directions. And so, man, Lucifer had such a heart to be worshiped. He wanted to worshiped, he wanted to be 'that.' You know what I mean? We just read that he wanted to be the high of the high. He wanted all of heaven to exalt him and worship him and be like, "okay God. You go somewhere else. Because here, I am the master, I am above everything." And obviously, we see that he got put in his place, right? It didn't last very long. So if we think of what led him to that, to sin, it would be that place of pride, him being so prideful. And I mean, we see this throughout scripture. If we're walking in pride, guess what? We're going to be put down pretty quick, in a sense. Pride comes before destruction, right? We see this and we know this. And so there's times I have to say, "okay John, is there a place in my heart that I have pride rising up?" And if I do, "okay Holy Spirit, highlight this for me so I can deal with it." I can give it to God and say, "okay, I'm dealing with pride. I don't want to walk in this anymore." And so, gosh, if we could realize, hey, we have this place of pride in our hearts, let's try to get this out. I know in my life there's been some places I've been pretty prideful,

Gary Schick
All of us have.

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah. And so for me, that's where my answer goes straight to, is pride led Lucifer to really take that dive of fall.

Gary Schick
I think that's good. And I kind of like where you started with that about God and Satan are not equal opposites. That's kind of an Eastern idea. The light and the dark; the yin and the yang. The balance of the good and the bad. And probably, that idea again, comes from Satan himself because he wants that. I think the real key to that passage in Isaiah, I'll come back to it in a minute, is where he says, "I will be like God." The very thing that he tempts Adam and Eve with. And so this idea of equal polar opposites; the positive and the negative forces in the universe may not be all he wants. But he's pretty content with the idea of being raised to that level. I think where we kind of need to begin is a biblical worldview. Do we have a biblical worldview? You know, I just got a little bit of this in seminary, but this is probably the least studied part of scripture, is what they call Angelology, the study of angels. And basically a secularist has a very monochromatic worldview. Just, there's man and the creation and that's it. Western Christians are a little bit better. We see man and creation, and we see God above; kind of two realms. You go among primitive people, and they also see two realms, although they're slightly different. They see man and the creation and they see the world of good and evil spirits, what the Bible would refer to as angels. But actually, a biblical worldview is actually that there are three realms of being. There is God who is a creator of all and rules overall. There is the realm of the spiritual, the good and the bad. You know, Revelation 12 actually kind of alludes to the fall of Satan. Where a third of the stars, or another reference to angels there, fall with him. And so only a third of the angels, but still significant number. And even in their rebellion, nevertheless, God rules and He sets the boundaries for Satan and evil. And then there is the realm of humankind.

Gary Schick
So really, kind of a three tier system. As we look at him in scripture, and we've kind of used all of his names, the devil and Satan,these are words that mean adversary and accuser. And he certainly is our adversary, and he certainly is the accuser of the saints. Lucifer's kind of an interesting one. And that is actually the one referred to in Isaiah, the light bearer. Lucifer is actually a Latin translation of that. Jesus is called the Bright and Morningstar. And again, Satan wants to take that. And in the, what is it, 2 Corinthians? It's in Corinthians where it says, "that we should be aware of him, because he can still masquerade as an angel of light." But in terms of his fall and what led to it, it is the same thing that he used to lead our forebearers to fall. "I will be like God," what did he tell Eve? "You will be like God." And what is it that gets us into trouble when we decide we're going to take the position of God? And really, you think about it, pride, that's one that's not really hard for people to admit. They're going to hesitate on some of what we would consider the bigger issues. The sexual things or the anger things or whatever. But underneath it all is P-R-I-D-E. That sense that, "I can get by with this. I can do this. God may say no, but who's going to know?" Well, scripture has a warning, pride comes before a fall. And people do ask the question, "is it legit to go to the very passage that he went to?" Ezekiel is actually addressed to the king of Tyre. Isaiah, that broader passage I addressed, to the king of Babylon. But again, going back to what you mentioned about Michael and a little bit of angelology in Daniel. Michael is sent in response to one of Daniel's prayers and he basically says, "sorry it took me so long. I was battling on behalf of your people, Israel, against the spiritual forces over the nations around you." We see battles like what's going on in Israel and what's going on in Ukraine. And what's even going on with some of the division in our own government. It's just a human strife. And it is that, but there is also a spiritual component. And one of the things we learn as we look at scripture and what it says about angels, they seem right from the beginning to have been put over different aspects of the natural world. And even they have turf that they kind of defend and battle for. And so, okay, here's Ezekiel addressing the king of Tyre, but talking about him as a cherub who was in the Garden of Eden. Well, that physical king was never an angel in Eden, but the spiritual power behind him, Lucifer, certainly was. The king of Babylon doesn't quite fit the description there, but the power, the spiritual force there,Lucifer. So, can we say legitimately these passages apply to Satan, Lucifer? Absolutely. Because there is the physical evil empire, so to speak---to quote Ronald Reagan as he was talking about the Russians. But the evil is not the people. As Paul says, "our struggle is not against the flesh and the blood." It's the spiritual forces of evil, the heavenly realms that are motivating humans in those horrific directions. And praise God! In Christ, we have the victory. Jesus said, "in this world you'll have trouble, but take courage. I have overcome the world." Satan wants us either to be obsessed with him or to just, no, that's a bunch of Halloween nonsense. No, no, he's real enough. But the power in us, Christ, has already overcome. So take courage listeners, in that. Jonathan, you want to wrap us up with some final thoughts?

Jonathan Hernandez
Yeah, so just a final thought I was just thinking about. I think one of Satan's tricks, I guess, is that he always tries to get is for us to not realize our identity. He did that with Eve, right? "If you eat this, you'll become like God," trying to get her to question who she is and question identity. He does the same thing when Jesus was baptized and God said, "you are my son whom I'm well pleased." And then later on Satan goes, "well, if you are the Son of God." So he tries to question that and he does that same thing to us. He tries to get us to question who we are, and we need to realize that our identity is found in Christ. In Christ alone, nothing else. So yeah, I'll leave it with that.

Gary Schick
I'm so appreciative that you brought out that last part about our identity, because, you know, it's a funny thing. When we're walking in pride, "I will be like God," we're never less like him, but when we humble ourselves and receive what we need to forgive our sins, Christ is our savior. What is the promise of scripture? And we will be like him when we stop claiming what's not our ground. But humble ourselves and say, "I will be who you made me to be in Christ." That is actually what raises us up to a very special place in the universe; in Christ. And so listeners, there's kind of two ways people go, either pride, "I don't need God," or another subtler form of pride. "Well, I need to clean up my life first." No, no, no. As one of my parishioners, one of the people in our church said to me, "the fisherman goes out and he catches the fish and then he cleans it. God gets ahold of us in Christ and then he cleans our life." Yeah, this is something we can do for ourselves. So listeners, if you haven't already, turned your life over to Jesus, that is where true life begins.

What’s in the Cross Reference Library? The Left Behind Series

Left Behind - When the trumpet sounds, where will you be? Passengers in an airborne Boeing 747 find out in this riveting novel by renowned Christian speaker Tim LaHaye and master storyteller Jerry Jenkins. Without any warning, passengers mysteriously disappear from their seats. Terror and chaos slowly spread not only through the plane but also worldwide as unusual events continue to unfold. For those who have been left behind, the apocalypse has just begun. This fictional account of life after the Rapture delivers an urgent call to today's readers to prepare their own hearts and minister to others.

Tribulation Force - Rayford Steele and Cameron ("Buck") Williams find themselves pressed into service for the man they believe could be the Antichrist. Nicolae Carpathia takes over the United Nations, signs a peace treaty with Israel, and begins to lure the nations of earth together to form one global village. Meanwhile, the judgment of God begins to fall on the earth. Buck and Rayford, along with their pastor and Rayford's daughter, must fight to stay alive and battle the forces of evil in the strength of their fledgling, newfound faith.

Next Tuesday is Halloween and for some people, it is a time to dress up and get candy. But for others, there is the reminder of ghosts, monsters, and serial killers. They look forward to this time of year, because it can bring a spooky supernatural thrill that they find exciting. I’m definitely a part of the first group of people I mentioned. Dressing up as a thing or character is just as fun as getting candy every year. But a couple of things that you will NEVER see me doing is: watching a horror movie or exploring a haunted house. NEVER!! I did each of those once and had nightmares for weeks. NEVER AGAIN! So for this week's post, instead of telling you about Ted Dekker’s, Alton Gansky, Frank Peretti, or even James Rubart’s Christian Thrillers—if this genre is your thing, their books are found in our library—but we also have the whole Left Behind series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. I would recommend the Left Behind series during this season, because it’s kinda scary how true it could be. Within the first few pages, the authors basically spell it out that the pilot, Rayford Steele, was going to be left behind. “Rayford Steele’s mind was on a woman he had never touched,” was the very first sentence of chapter one. His inner mindset continues to talk about how he finds his wife less attractive because of her, “obsession with religion.” It soon after says, “God was OK with Rayford Steele.” The other character that gets left behind is Buck Williams, a journalist who traveled for Global Weekly. On a job in Israel, he had witnessed something that might’ve changed his life and, “Christian friends wanted Buck to take the next step and believe in Christ, now that he was so clearly spiritually attuned. He wasn’t prepared to go that far, but he was certainly a different person.” Buck had no idea how closely he had missed his chance.

Whether you decide to read the Left Behind series or not, I want you to take into consideration one of the scariest things about it. Rayford was committing adultery in his mind against his wife and he had drifted 100s of miles away from God. AND THEN THE DAY CAME. Buck Williams had seen the evidence of God’s existence, and he wasn’t prepared to take the next step. AND THEN THE DAY CAME. Read Matthew 24:36-44: 

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Our two main characters weren’t ready, and became two of many who were left behind. When the trumpet sounds, where will you be? Are you living a god-fearing life? Have you asked Jesus to come live in your heart? These are questions that we should ask ourselves everyday. So come on in to The Cross Reference Library and check this thrilling book series. 

How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 1 of 4)

Transcribed from Sermons by Bruce Peterson at Grace Chapel in Scottsbluff, NE. The video of this sermon can be found by clicking this link.

For a printable list of the primary verses to use when sharing the Gospel via this method, click on this link.

How do I end up going to Heaven when I die?

I’ve had the privilege—not bragging at all it’s just in a lot of ways a career choice—but I’ve had the privilege of leading hundreds and hundreds of people to Christ and I’ll tell you this right now, it is profoundly easy. It’s not quick, it’s usually a two and half hour or longer conversation because the Gospel is not something you just say it’s not a “repeat after me” prayer. No one is going to Heaven by just doing a repeat after me prayer.


When I was in Chicago at Sally’s and mine first apartment we had a landlord whose nephew went to a Christian college and he was on the football team. That football team would go to Europe during the summer and do scrimmages and show other colleges football and then they would bring that team or the other sports team onto the field and lead them into a repeat after me prayer and they would come back to the states and report on how many people got saved. And I asked if they understood English and they’d say, “Oh no they don’t understand English.” I’m like, “Wait a minute, you honestly think that repeating the words in a language you don’t know gets people saved?”

The Gospel is not a magic trick. It’s truth. There is a real problem and there’s a real solution and getting saved is recognizing the problem and choosing the solution. You choose it. To choose it you have to understand it.
— Bruce Peterson

That’s ridiculous on so many levels, God is not a magician, the Gospel is not a magic trick. It’s truth. There is a real problem and there’s a real solution and getting saved is recognizing the problem and choosing the solution. You choose it. To choose it you have to understand it. As you talk to anyone the goal is to have a conversation that they understand.

If you look at how the people in the Bible share the Gospel--If you look at Paul in the book of Romans: he is writing to a church he’s never been to and he says, “I am going to tell you the Gospel.” And he starts by saying, “The Gospel is the power of God to save,” and then he takes three chapters and proves everyone in the world guilty, he condemns everyone first.

You first have to see the problem before you want the solution. No one ever, in anything in life, goes for a solution unless they see the problem. The problem has to be heavy. So when you are explaining the Gospel to people, you have to spend a significant amount of time crushing them.


I tell you this, truly before the Gospel got a grip on my soul, I was making a terrible mess of my life. I was destroying people in my path. I was destroying my own soul, stealing everything I could, and smoking everything that could be smoked. It was bad. I was dying and I was taking the world with me. Then the Gospel took me from the grave to be a mouthpiece for God.

What the Gospel can do is profound. And we don’t have the right to look at people and go, “Oh they won’t like the Gospel. I can’t explain it to them, they won’t accept it, they won’t believe it, they won’t appreciate it, they don’t want to be free from their life. They love their life.” Not true, we are all looking for something deep and meaningful that gives purpose and joy and meaning and a destiny for our lives, something bigger than ourselves that we can get involved in. Everyone you know wants the Gospel. You just may not know how to teach it to them.

They want freedom. They want meaning and purpose. They want to wake up and know what life's about. They do, they want it, they want it bad. You want it bad, you all do.

This sermon series is about how we share the Gospel. It’s huge, it’s monumental. So, I hope you take this series to heart.

Alright, so we're gonna read Revelation and I'm going to explain to you why we need the Gospel.

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses take place at the end of the Millennium. At the end of time.

There are four ages of humanity, four ways God has “ringed” out of this Earth as many people as he can for salvation—so his kingdom is as big as possible.

  1. He first used his reputation, until his reputation could save no more.

  2. Then he shifted to Abraham, to using the Jewish Nation as his means of communicating who he is to the world. Through the Old Testament we see tons of people get saved—mostly Gentiles, by the way. The Jews seem to be a bit rebellious but the Gentiles seem to come right along.

  3. At the end of the Old Testament his Nation is done and he shifts to his People. That's us, the “Church Age”, some from every nation. He spread his Nation out into individual people, so now we are the people of God. He's using the church to save as many as he can through our age.

  4. Next, he will shift to his King—Jesus. And Jesus will reign on the earth, God himself, for as long as people are being saved. And that too will have a timeline, it will have an expiration date.

People will eventually choose against the Kingship of Jesus. You can't go higher than God ruling on Earth. So, then it's all over, and we have this scene from Revelation. This is when the time is up.43

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

There’s no place for them because we're having a giant “start over”.

And I saw the dead, great and small,

Who's dead at this point? Everybody, everyone's dead. We’re all dead.

standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life.

This is a very important verse. The books were opened and another book was opened. We have a pile of plural books and a separate single book. Keep that picture in your mind: a pile of books, and a separate single Book of Life.

The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Scary.

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

And here’s the giant problem: there are books that are being kept on every single thing you think, say, and do, and you will answer for every single thing.

There’s also a book of names, the Book of Life, and it only has names. Here’s the good news: you either have a pile of books or you have a name in the Book of Life, you don’t have both.
— Bruce Peterson

Okay, that's why we’ve got to talk about—the Gospel. This is the scene. Everyone stands before God someday, everyone, all the dead, no one escapes, every single person. And here's the giant problem: there are books that are being kept on every single thing you think, say, and do, and you will answer for every single thing.

There's also a book of names, the Book of Life, and it only has names. Here's the good news: you either have a pile of books or you have a name in the Book of Life, you don't have both.

The question is, how in the world do we get our name in the Book of Life and get our pile of books which have recorded everything we’ve done, wiped out?

This is what you need to explain to people. So, I'm going to teach you how to.


Revelations wraps everything up. Everyone stands before God. God has rung everyone out of the earth who can get into the Book of Life and now it's time to go into eternity.

We see in Revelations chapters 21 and 22 that Death is no more.

Those who have their name in The Book of Life enter into Heaven and Paradise. That's how the whole thing wraps up: We all get our day in court and that's going to be a terrible day, for all of us, including Believers. Because, the verse that says God wipes all tears from their eyes and there's no more sadness, is after the Great White Throne Judgment. It is not when you die and go to Heaven, that's not when your grief ends. Even God has said that on the day of judgment we will see people we love and did not talk to about the Gospel and they will be damned and we will not just be sad, we will be wrecked over our silence. That should wreck you; that should wreck you right now.

It is after that when God wipes away all our tears.


Okay, let's explain the Gospel. Fair warning, this sermon only ends on the negative, there's no good news today, because when you're explaining the Gospel to somebody you have to wreck them. I'm going to try to show you how I try to do that.

This is exactly how it sounds when I talk to people about the Gospel. It takes at least two and a half hours. I can't get it done in less than that and I typically record our conversation when I witness to people. Then when they get saved I can give them a recording of their own salvation and they love it. It's pretty meaningful and it's a good tool because then I also have those, and you could actually listen to me explain the Gospel to someone, but it sounds exactly like this sermon.

Usually when I’m talking to someone I personalize it, but this will be an overview.

So, you start with the problem.

If you think of Jesus’s life as the Gospel message, it starts with the Sermon on the Mount. Everyone is crushed in the Sermon on the Mount. And it ends with his death and resurrection. That's the sermon of Jesus.

If you think of Paul, you would start in Romans 1 where it wrecks everyone, and then go to chapter 3 verse 21 where it talks about righteousness as a gift from God. But he doesn’t start with that because everyone would be confused.

You have to take your time with people to explain it and you don’t have to do it all in one setting. And you don’t give the answer--that Jesus is the solution--until they ask.

If you spend long enough just crushing people, they will eventually say, “Okay, what’s the solution to this?”

When they ask, they are ready, but don't give them the answer before they ask or they won’t truly hear it. It won’t make sense. Don't give the answer first, start with the problem, they have to understand the problem before they will care about the answer.

Here's the problem: God says we need to be holy. Be holy.

Most people in the world are going to say, “Yeah, I'm pretty good.”

Most people you talk to are starting from a place where they think that they’re in the top half of humanity as far as goodness and that this is good enough. You have to wreck that mentality, because God wrecks it. He says we have to be holy.
— Bruce Peterson

That is their starting place. They're going to think one of two things: “Yeah, I’m probably going to Heaven when I die.” Or, “Well, I’m not bad enough to go to Hell. Not that bad. I don’t deserve Hell.”

Those are really the same thing. Most people you talk to are starting from a place where they think that they're in the top half of humanity as far as goodness and that this is good enough. You have to wreck that mentality, because God wrecks it. He says we have to be holy.

Hebrews 12: 14-15 (NIV)

“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.”

“Be holy, without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Holiness. That's the standard if you want to see God. What do you have to be? Holy.

Okay, that's rough.

1 Peter 1:14-16 (NIV)

“As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: “‘Be holy, because I am holy.’”

Who is saying this? God. How holy should you be? Holy like God. There’s the problem.

Paul points out this problem plainly in Chapter 3 of Romans; this is his concluding thought at the end of his argument where he is crushing people:

Romans 3:9-20 (NIV)

What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”

“Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.”

“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”

“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”

“Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know.”

“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Here’s a summary of these verses: Paul says, “Here’s what I’ve just done, I’ve made a charge that the Jews and the Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin, as it is written.”

Now Paul’s just going to quote all over the Biblical text, “There’s no one who’s righteous. There’s not even one.”

So, the person sitting across from you is not righteous. They might think they are, so what are you going to do? You’re going to do some work, you’re going to walk them through their life to see if they are really righteous.

“There's no one righteous…there's no one who understands…”

What's your goal? To help them understand. What do they have to understand? That they're not righteous.

That's the start of the Gospel. Paul starts his argument by proclaiming that everyone falls short of God’s requirement. No one is holy. He does all of this before he gets to the good news. Don’t waste your time explaining Jesus until you have helped them understand that they have a problem which they can’t solve. It’s right there in the text.

Therefore no one

How many people? …no one

will be declared righteous.

Righteous means “good enough” in God’s sight by the works of the law. Which means by what you do. How many people are going to Heaven because of how good they are? Nobody.

Everyone you know who thinks they are good enough to go to Heaven, is not going. And at the Great White Throne Judgement you will see them and they will see you and that’s going to be a horrible “day”. And it’s not a “day” like 24-hours, it’s a very long time. Everyone gets their day in court.

…rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

Why did God give us the rules? So we would know we need a savior.
— Bruce Peterson

Why did God give us the rules? So we would know we need a savior.

What do we tend to do as humans? We look at the rules and we declare ourselves good enough. And doing this will destroy many many people whom we love. And that is somewhat on us, because it is our job to tell them the truth.

Hebrews 4:12-13 (NIV)

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

You are not getting away with anything. We are all sinners.

People don't like that phrase, that “we are all sinners”. What is sin? It's missing the bullseye; it's missing the mark. What is the bullseye? Holiness. And how many times have you hit the bullseye? Zero. How many times has anyone hit the bullseye? Zero. How many times do you have to hit the bullseye to be holy? Every single time. Every time, in every relationship, in every situation, in every thought and attitude. What is missing the mark? What is sin? Not having the same thoughts, words, and deeds that Jesus, himself, would have in every single situation.

We are all wrecked.

Now you’ve got to talk about it,. You’ve got to talk about it a little bit; you’ve got to make it real.


So, I almost always bring up stuff like this illustration—I have the privilege of doing counseling, so I get to say this to people:

People will say this, “Listen, I don't deserve to go to Hell because I'm not…” and they will list some of the sins that they think people should go to Hell for, “…I'm not Hitler. I'm not a murderer. I'm not a serial rapist. I'm not…” You know, whatever the list is that they'll have.

So, I say to them stuff like this:

You know what, I get to counsel people sometimes, and here's what I'll tell you from my experience: In a marriage where someone commits one of the big sins in marriage, infidelity—where someone cheats on the other one—I'll give you tons of examples of people who have committed adultery in their relationship and that relationship not only survives it, but it's better afterwards.

Now to be clear, it's not the infidelity that makes the marriage better. Infidelity is a huge problem. But, it's the work that gets done in the relationship to recover from the infidelity which can actually make that relationship a better relationship than it was to begin with. This is pretty regular.

But, with a marriage which is just about to break, when it's on its last—literally—its last leg, one person has just been talked into going to counseling and they don't even want to be there—when it's that desperate, it's usually not a big offense. It's little ones; it's a million little cuts. It's every single day of their whole relationship someone is ignored. The other person always, every day, throws them under the bus. When it comes to decisions, one of them never considers what the other might want. They don’t share their values; they don’t share their views. They never talk to them. They never appreciate them. They never love them. They always speak down to them. When they are having a conversation, they are always throwing the other one under the bus. They use their name as a byword and a curse word and a joke. They are nothing to them. They’ve never appreciated them a single day of their life. One person is just trashed every moment of the entire relationship.

Recovering that relationship…that is almost impossible.

The pattern is so deep, it's so deep, and the wounds are so deep. The distance between them is so vast. One of them has just never ever been appreciated by the other one. That marriage is rough.

And I only say that to you to say, listen, if perhaps only one time in your life you bowed down to an idol…God might even go, “Okay, one time you had one big miss…” And maybe he could move past that.

But, here's the facts according to Paul, according to God…let’s just look at your life…how often do you think about God?

No, seriously, how often do you think about him? How often do you consider God first before you make a decision in your life? He wrote you a letter, how much of it have you read? How often do you read it? How often do you pray? How often are you building your life on God?

He says, “No one seeks me.” How hard are you seeking Him? Seriously, tell me how much time per day do you seek Him? When was the last time you went to church? When's the last time you actually sacrificed a significant part of your life for the plan of God? When you considered your retirement, when you considered your job, when you considered your career choice, when you considered anything important in your life, how often did you first ask, is this what God wants for me? The truth is, you don't do it, ever.

Here's the truth, anytime you've decided to do something, if God would have stopped you in that moment and said, “Listen, I don't want you to do this.” You would instinctively and instantly say, “I don't care what you want, this is what I want, and this is what I'm going to do.” You do it every single day.

If He was literally following you around, there would be moments in the day where you are about to think or say something, and if he stopped you, just like he stopped Cain, and said to Cain, “Listen, don't do it. Sin is crouching at your door, it's going to get you.”

You would say, “I don't care; I'm going to look at the porn. I don't care; I'm going to watch that woman walk away and I'm going to imagine what her butt looks like naked. I'm going to imagine myself winning a billion dollars and I'm going to imagine myself naked on a beach somewhere drunk. I'm just gonna imagine myself with someone else every time I go home. I'm going to put a different face on my spouse every time. I'm just not gonna care. I don't care if I use bad language. I don't care what jokes you don’t want me to tell. I don't care what jokes you don’t want me to laugh at. I don't care.”

Everyone does this and we do it all day every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every single day, we throw God under the bus. We use his name as a curse word all the time. And then we want to say to God, “Oh, but I'm a pretty good person and you should love me unconditionally and just let me into your family and be happy I'm here.”

It's ridiculous! Absolutely, utterly, ridiculous! To have the audacity to call ourselves good, is to have the foolish thought that we are graded on a bell curve and we are all in an underperforming school where someone has to pass the class, so, no one does the homework, but someone has to pass. I think I'm going to get a B in this class. I'm not even gonna have to try. I just have to try a little harder than that guy.

I want to know. Seriously, you take a minute now and just try to convince me…you’re not convincing God right now, just go ahead and try to convince me that you're a good person and really should deserve to go to Heaven. I'd love to hear it.

Let me have your spouse in the room when you tell me these things, because I'd love to see their reaction to how you are good enough to go to Heaven.

Listen, God says there is an angel in Heaven watching your life who knows your attitudes and he's writing them down, every one of them. And you are going to be held accountable to them.

Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

In the Bible “unclean” means unacceptable. How many of us are unacceptable? All of us, and all of our righteous acts are like menstrual rags to God.

Yep that's what it says, your cleaned up American version of the Bible will say “filthy rags” or something like that, but the Hebrews had to read what God said and He calls your “good” deeds menstrual rags.


This is how it goes in marriage counseling:

This person’s spouse is trying to explain to them how they feel totally totally ignored and this person over here says something like, “How can you feel that way? I took the garbage out just yesterday?”

And what does this other person feel about that? Is that good?

What we think of as good is just Baseline Behavior. It’s what is expected...That’s not being good, that’s your job.
— Bruce Peterson

See, here's the thing, this is why this is so important, because what we think of as good is just Baseline Behavior. It’s what is expected. That’s the shocking thing that you have to get across. That’s not being good, that’s your job. It’s your job to love them. That is your one job--to love. You can’t point to moments where you loved, even if it’s big, you can’t point to it as good. It’s the Baseline.

The expectation in marriage is to love each other more than your own life. That’s what you promised at the wedding. The other person is the most important. And you’re down here wanting credit for things that aren’t even reaching halfway to that expectation?

Here's what's happening, you take out the garbage and then you hold it over my head like, “Look what I did?” That's not good, that's actually bad! It’s filthy rags to them; that's not love!

And that's the game we play with God. It's the game I'm afraid you're playing with God. I think you think you're good and I'm telling you you're wrecked.


Right here's where I'll kind of shift and go into just numbers.

I'll say, “Listen, now that you've kind of got this idea of humanity’s lack of holiness, how many times a day do you think you don't hit the bullseye?”

Even if you have a thought about doing something bad, you are guilty of it. Or if you have the wrong attitude—attitudes are important too.

Now, I'll spend a little time on attitudes.

Picture a racist, picture Hitler in a room with all the people he loves. In that moment he's not actively being racist he loves everyone in that room. Does he, in that moment, cease to be a racist? No. Is he less guilty at that moment than at any other moment? No, he's not off the hook.

Here's why that's important, because we are all greedy. I don't care if that, at this moment, you're putting something into the offering plate. I don't care if you just gave the homeless guy at Walmart 20 bucks. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is you're never ever any single moment of your life off the hook for being greedy. After all, you only gave him 20 bucks.


Then I'll go to what Jesus said when he was asked what's the most important Commandment (Matthew 22:36-40).

He said it was to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. To love God with everything you are, with all of your passions--your heart--and your soul, and your thoughts. So, with your passions, your attitudes, and every thought, love God.

Then he said the second one is very much like the first one. It's to love your neighbor as yourself.

Then, of course, Jesus’ audience asked Him, “Well, who’s my neighbor?”

Jesus answered with a story (The Good Samaritan—Luke 10:25-37) and the point of that story is that everyone is your neighbor, including your enemies. As you get a handle on loving God with everything you are, then you are supposed to love everyone else with everything you are.

I'd love to hear the story of the day that proves you love God more than anything else in this world and I would love one example, just one example, one in your whole life, one single example where you have truly loved your enemy as much as you love yourself. Because I tell you this, when I tell you my kid has cancer you will not pray for him nearly as much as you'll pray for your own kid, and you love me, but you don't even love me as much as you love yourself. And I'll tell you this, if your spouse gets cancer you won't even pray for them as much as you'll pray for yourself when you get cancer, because you suck at loving.

If I'm wrong I'm all ears. Tell me how good you are, convince me, tell me. But, I'm not the audience, I'm going to be in the audience, but you're going to explain it to God in front of everyone, including the people that you claim to love, and they'll be called as Witnesses. It seems to me that you are in for a world of hurt.


And let me explain the consequences to you:

Revelation 20:11-15 (NIV)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

David Howard Hitchcock's oil painting 'Halemaumau, Lake of Fire', 1888

You have an angel who is gauging every attitude and thought you have and you're going to stand before God and the consequences are terrible. Anyone whose name is not found written in the Book of Life is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

If you get your name in The Book of Life, none of this is in your future.
— Bruce Peterson

I don't want that for you. I love you. I want you to know that right in this passage where God puts this warning He holds out an amazing possibility for you, even now. He gives you the chance to get your name in the Book of Life, because if you get your name in The Book of Life, none of this is in your future.

What will the person you're evangelizing to do at this moment? If you've taken your time and done it well, they will go, “How do I do that?”

Now they are ready for the good news.


Take your time with this first part, their eternity is at stake.

If you aren't saved, your eternity is at stake. I hope you felt wrecked today.

Take your time; this was a half hour, but I take way longer to explain the Gospel to people in real life.

I make it personal. I make it hurt. Sometimes there's tears. Just go slowly. You're not in a hurry. The only thing that cuts it off is their death. Take your time, make them want the solution. Until you sense that asking for the solution is on their lips, stay on this subject.


In “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part 2)” we will start talking about the answer. Click here for Part 2.

Click here for “How to Lead Someone to Christ (Part3)”.


This series of blog posts titled, “Holding on to Reason”, is named after Amanda’s favorite C.S. Lewis quote: “Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted, in spite of your changing moods.”

Click here for more things written or transcribed by Amanda Hovseth.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library?

The Woman from Lydia - Widowed Euodia, known to her neighbors as “the Lydian woman,” seeks to make a fresh start by moving to the foreign city of Philippi. She finds new purpose after meeting Paulos, apostle to the Gentiles, who opens her eyes to helping those in need, particularly women and those who have been enslaved. Retired Roman soldier Hector has settled in Philippi with dreams of a future filled with wealth and status, pooling his army earnings with Lucious, his fellow comrade-in-arms turned business partner. His hopes are dashed, however, when Paulos robs their youngest enslaved girl of her lucrative ability to foretell the future, rendering her worthless to Hector’s ambition. Determined to find someone to restore the girl’s valuable “gift,” Hector is willing to travel to the ends of the earth to do so. Following close behind him, Euodia and her servants embark on a journey to rescue Sabina and set her free forever. 

Seeing as Jesus Sees - “Jesus, how do You see this?” Discover a new, simple prayer, brief enough to change your whole life. It’s a request the Savior loves to grant because when you see yourself, others, and the world through His eyes, you’ll

  • Discover the wonder and beauty you’ve been missing

  • Clear away misunderstandings and defeat the lies that hold you back

  • Take the limits off your life

  • Rekindle genuine compassion for others

  • Find hope again for the world

If you’re looking for a Spirit-filled life of freedom and joy, you don’t need to do more—you just need to see more. Let pastor Alan Wright lead you through the Scriptures to the Savior’s side to see everything from His perspective. You’re going to love the view.

What’s New in the Cross Reference Library?

Quenched - If you are a woman who has struggled with lust and pornography, there is hope. Though you may feel trapped in a destructive cycle that is keeping you distant from God, you are not alone. Jessica Harris has been there, and she has made it her mission to break the silence, banish the shame, and bring the struggle into the light. In this authentic and honest book, she shows you a road map for restoration that answers the question “Is there grace left for me?” with a resounding and emphatic “Yes!” It’s time to break down the wall of shame between yourself and your God in order to drink from the well of grace, forgiveness, and freedom God has for you. 

Rooted in Wonder - For a generation whose eyes are constantly trained on screens, encountering nature at all is increasingly difficult—much less seeing what it reveals about God. How can parents help children re engage with the natural world that is so full of amazement, creativity, and love? Eryn Lynum is a certified master naturalist, Bible teacher, and mom of four who wants to help families encounter and understand the connection between God and creation. She shares her own story of surrounding her kids with nature, and invites other parents to embark on a similar journey. With practical sections that look at flora and fauna, water and sky through the lens of the Bible and activities to integrate faith and the natural world, Rooted in Wonder equips parents to cultivate an unshakable faith within their kids. Through the art of play, the drive of discovery, and the awe of adventure, children will gain a sense of wonder in their Creator that will last a lifetime. 

Everything You Need - Are you searching for greater confidence, purpose, and peace in your life? Are the distractions and pressures of this world weighing you down? If you’re overwhelmed, there’s help at your fingertips—help that will give you everything you need to walk life’s journey with resilience and strength. In Everything You Need, author and beloved Bible teacher Dr. David Jeremiah uses 2 Peter 1:3-11 to show you the path to spiritual and personal transformation. Dr. Jeremiah also highlights the extraordinary resources God has already provided for your growth: His divine power and precious promises. Filled with inspiring stories and practical truth, each chapter shows you how to take these divine gifts and develop eight remarkable character qualities that will strengthen you to soar above your circumstances and enable you to make the most of every opportunity that comes your way.